ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva

CoyoteOldMan

Cuprajake

I get the ring on the edge at times. Not sure what causes it.

DenisS

A coffee with more fines produced while grinding, such as Ethiopia. You could reduce the dose and then maybe fix it a tiny bit but go by taste.

Regarding my post with long timed shots, 40-60 sec, I was refering to dark roasts, what I see in your video above LMSC is not a dark roast. Dark roast is oily beans/shiny for example Espresso bar from Saka. Grinder is also important, some grinders dont go well in long timed shots.

A dark roast would not go so fast into blonding and be so watery, that’s normally how a single origin flows. Also there is no such thing as dark roast ethiopia, atleast in Italy, it’s either a blend or some low altitude beans. Those were the beans I said to try in 40-60 sec.

Higher temp brings up acidity (not a pleasent one) but a harsh one. Dark roast have no acidity in them. You could say it’s roasted darker that you normally use but not a dark roast.

The theory behind long time extractions on dark roast is pretty simple. If you grind too fine and extend a shot to 40-60 sec you underextract it on purpose, because the water cannot wash the entire puck column and extract everthing even (as it would be in a turbo shot). On dark roasts you do not want huge extractions, you want high TDS (short ratio) but low EY% because of the aftertaste and bad compounds from roasting.

LMSC

DenisS Thanks Denis for your thoughts and observations. Purely by taste, I definitely prefer the second shot. The 44s was just a coincident and I wasn’t aiming. I will grind a tad coarser and see how it goes.

The bag was not medium light and would place it between medium and medium dark. It is not a dark roast even by any stretch of imaginations.

Unlike other Ethiopian used (mostly medium) in the past, this (relatively speaking) got stuck so much at the bottom of my hand grinder. I did a quick RDT for the second shot, which helped reduce the stuck ground only a little bit.

I will dose a gram lower and see how it goes.

Denis, somebody here commented your roasted beans look so good. Would you care sharing what you have been up to and how do you brew coffee now please? Thx!

NelisB

There is is low extraction pressure discussion on HB. https://www.home-barista.com/tips/5-bar-espresso-what-h-t82412.html#p882254

BBritton

I just moved my Evo to Canada from Indonesia. As I try to commission the machine again it will not prime the pump and fill the boilers. Seems not to have any suction. I had same problem when I first got the machine, but I can’t remember what I did to get it to draw water. Any suggestions? I have F04 at 0 for internal tank. I checked and it seems there is no suction.

MediumRoastSteam

BBritton I just moved my Evo to Canada from Indonesia.

Just to make sure, but could it be voltage? Canada is 110V, Indonesia 230V.

Presumably your machine is 230V.

Just a guess of what springs to mind.

BBritton

MediumRoastSteam I wired a special outlet for it with 220V. So no I doubt it is voltage. Everything else seems to work fine. Except I have the boilers off since no water.

You can hear a resonance coming from the tube if you pull it out of the water, but doesnt seem to push or pull water.

MediumRoastSteam

BBritton - the only thing I can think is to prime the pump by feeding water through the hose with a syringe all the way in order to try and prime it. Otherwise, I’m out of idea, sadly. 😔

BBritton

Ok I got it now. I had to force feed the tube with a large syringe Once the line was primed it worked fine.

I just saw your previous post advising me to use a syringe, after I had used a syringe. Seems we had same idea. It worked.

Cuprajake

this happened to someone further up just recently, was a priming issuse, glad its sorted,

btw thats some move haha

darkstefano

Hello, yesterday I have used my EVO to produce 10 shot in series, it was set at 88/96, it did not keep the work pace the temperatures fluctuate at 85/100, of course I didn’t have time to wait for return to the temperature set between shots.

There are a solution for stressful work?

Thanks!

LMSC

darkstefano What are your PID settings ?

The recommended settings for FV 02.06

Group 2.0, 0.04, 5.0, 40
Brew 1.0, 0, 5, 140-160
Service 10,0,5,1.0

Edit

@Stevebee is your man! I think he still stresses the machine like a busy coffee shop during week ends.

dfk41

darkstefano Did you make 10 espresso shots or did some require hot water?

Cuprajake

10 shots i would think any non commercial machine would struggle with that ,

thats a full boilers worth haha

darkstefano

@LMSC Sorry i don’t know my pid set, but my evo after 20 min is stable.

The problem comes with shots series, using with the guests/friends

Probably you are right @Cuprajake

@DavecUK have any suggestion?

Thanks a lot!

DavecUK

darkstefano DavecUK have any suggestion?

Thanks a lot

What are your PID settings?

How long after switching on did you start the series of 10 shots?

We’re you flushing the group between shots?

Is it set for simultaneous boiler operations, was the service boiler on?

CoyoteOldMan

darkstefano orry i don’t know my pid set, but my evo after 20 min is stable.

It’s clearly not stable enough for pulling 10 shots, and that’s where altering the PID settings may help - please, do check them, particularly the ‘range’ setting of the brew boiler (the 140-160 above), which is very different from the default.

FWIW, the most I pulled were 6 in a row (making tiramisu), and the group and brew boiler were fine in terms of temperature, with the settings posted by LMSC above.

I suspect there may not be much you can do once a brew boiler refill is called for - you need to wait for the boiler to get back to temperature, then you can start pulling again. If the pull is for half a boiler (0.3 l) it means waiting literally 2 minutes between shots. I don’t know what the ‘refill logic’ for the brew boiler in the Evo is; mine seems to top-up during the shot every shot, but I’m not sure.

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK In reality it’s going to be 50 seconds or more.

I think way longer - not least because although pressure is “nearly” zero after 10-15 seconds from me pulling the cups, I need to wait about 25 if I want to avoid all sneezing (or be cautious when opening the portafilter). That gives me time to grind in the other portafilter (and BTW I have a fast grinder with a hopper; anyone single dosing is going to take longer!)

My bet is on the PID parameters - if darkstefano left them at default, I can see intuitively the boiler ‘swinging’, as it will get out of the (too narrow - 1 °C) PID regulation band repeatedly and go on “full heating”/“full cooling” mode. That then drags the group into the same behaviour after a few shots, and on the swing it all goes.

(the image is not related to the discussion except to illustrate the concept…)

darkstefano

DavecUK

PID settings are standard, I don’t know how to modify (temperature are group 88 coffee boiler 96)
40+ min
only one at the end of the shot series
only group and coffee boiler

I pulling the 10 shots but the machine oscillate at 100° for the coffee boiler and 85° for the group, I didn’t have time to wait for the temperature stabilize.

You suggest to try modify pid setting?

Thanks again

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan I suspect there may not be much you can do once a brew boiler refill is called for - you need to wait for the boiler to get back to temperature, then you can start pulling again. If the pull is for half a boiler (0.3 l) it means waiting literally 2 minutes between shots. I don’t know what the ‘refill logic’ for the brew boiler in the Evo is; mine seems to top-up during the shot every shot, but I’m not sure.

The brew boiler is always full, it’s basically pressurised by the pump so as water leaves the group, it’s entering the brew boiler. You could think of it as as just wider part of the plumbing to the group.

The Standard E61 Vesuvius actually has an HX on/off setting (which I designed in), this was to have the ability to work in a prosumer setting, without disturbing temperature stability and in the highest volume setting, being almost as stable, but allowing much higher capacity. This was done to allow for continuous coffees, or HX off, the normal prosumer usage.

Evo doesn’t have this, because it doesn’t really need it. I asked all the questions because there is something he is doing causing this. Hopefully will be clearer once questions are answered.

If you do the calculations, reheating the amount of water that enters the brew boiler during a shot, takes approximately 35s.. Making shots quickly involves (even with a doser grinder that’s full. So shot timings would be (for a quick barista).

The shot itself inc any preinfusion = 28s
Wait after the shot to move cup, dregs to stop flowing and group pressure to drop = 3s
Remove portafilter, knock out, dry brush clean 3s
Dose, tamp and lock in portafilter, pull lever down = 6s (which would be pretty good going)

This means a time period of 40s between shots (and I am assuming coffee is ground during the shot)…although more realistically, I would doubt a home barista could produce shots that fast. In reality it’s going to be 50 seconds or more. Anyone out there is welcome to time themselves over 3 shots and prove me wrong. in a video. So something else is going on is the Evo can’t keep up with them.

LMSC

The brew boiler should refill as posted by CoyoteOldMan. A short or a long flush would make a difference to the waiting time. Subject to the waiting time, IMO, I don’t think pulling 10 shots in a row is an issue. Obviously, it is not designed for a commercial environment. If my memory is correct, I remember Stevebee using the machine quite a lot every week ends (100-200 shots a week end).

Edit :

I have pulled a max of 7 shots, always short flushed and waiting never bothered me. I grind and prep the puck between shots. It’s always ready for the next shot.

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