Hi all. Need some recommendations please.

Need a new set up, previously had a little gem which was inconsistent but nice when I got it right.

Will be preparing cappas and lattes at weekends, want the ability to make 4 + drinks in a row.

Want a dual boiler with PID, a single dose grinder.

So far have the lelit Elizabeth in 1st place and maybe a niche zero when they are available.

Any other recommendations around similar price points, don’t think I can stretch to a bianca !

Did consider scs minima but reviewers have reported that it is loud and the Elizabeth is on the quieter side so she swings it ATM

Any help gratefully received for the next stage of my coffee journey.

Steve

    Stev Welcome to the forum, in that price range it’s a tough market and probably Elizabeth represents the best bang for your buck, based on the requirement for a quiet pump.

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      I have this exact setup, as do many others! The Elizabeth is a great machine, and the Niche is a great espresso grinder to pair it with.

      It’ll easily make 4 drinks in a row, I tend to individualy steam the milk for each drink, about 120ml, while the double shot pours and have done 5 back to back, each drink taking about one and a halk minutes, but if you were making single shot drinks you could easily knock out cappuccinos much quicker by steaming more milk.

      A decent puck prep routine is key if you want to get the most out of it, my shot consistancy is much bettter with a bit more care and attention.

      @Stev @DavecUK

      I’m hopefully getting a Minima soon and have spoken to a couple of people about theirs, including @HVL87 , who doesn’t have an issue.

      I know it is very subjective, but in Dave’s video below he seems to taking quite comfortably over the pump noise. Is that right Dave? Were you wearing a mic or using something that has boosted your voice over background noise?

      Just thought I’d mention it.

        The pump on the Minima is noisy. I don’t have an issue with it other than the occasional rattle which accompanies it. More than willing to overlook considering the performance of the machine and easy maintenance. The Elizabeth can also rattle although the pump is quieter.

        The Minima does have a lot steam power on tap so is ideal for back to back drinks. If you do want to brew and steam at the same time you won’t see any drop off in steam performance and recovery of the steam boiler back to set temp after steaming is fast.

        The Elizabeth is more compact. An E61 takes up a lot of space especially if you keep the portafilter in as it protrudes. The E61 group is hot and exposed.

        Minima is big boilers and brute force, Elizabeth is small boilers with a clever brain. Personally I chose the former, although there are happy owners of both machines.

        PortafilterProcrastinator I know it is very subjective, but in Dave’s video below he seems to taking quite comfortably over the pump noise. Is that right Dave? Were you wearing a mic or using something that has boosted your voice over background noise?

        I was possibly a little nearer the mic than the machine. In some videos, I do talk purposely when the pump is running, so people can get an idea of the noise level. The Minima isn’t the quietest vibration pump, and a lot more noisy than an Elizabeth. If you take the video, turn up the volume to a level where I was in the room with you, imagine the pump 10% louder, then that’s probably accurate.

        The espresso performance of the Minima is the same as that of most £2000 dual boiler machines, and it requires very little E61 group maintenance (compared to an E61 lever group) apart from the usual dropping the shower screen regularly to clean behind it. Don’t let the price, or looks deceive you…think of it like this

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          @Stev

          Another difference between Minima and Lizzy: the latter has automatic pre infusion. Particularly useful if you like lighter roasts.

          Not to jump to the Minima’s defence but unlike the Elizabeth you can add flow control to the Minima - even more control for lighter roasts. Of course it comes at a small cost.

          @PortafilterProcrastinator Were you wearing a mic or using something that has boosted your voice over background noise?

          One thing that can make a very big difference on that is the type of microphone. Some are of a design that inherently have pretty good rejection of sounds from other than the intended source direction, i.e. other sides and/or rear. Others are more sensitive and tend to pick up every last bit of ambient or off-axis noise. Take a look at the polar patterns for condenser v dynamic mic’s. Even more so, of course, are shotgun mic’s, but they’re visually obvious whereas the others aren’t unless you know the sound characteristics of the mic type. I don’t know what mic Dave uses.

            It’s surprising how good phones are these days, both for cameras and, indeed, for mic’s.

            It’s also surprising how good some pretty cheap mic’s can be …. sometimes with a bit of software help, which I guess is cheating. .I have a dead cheap Behringer mic that cost me about a tenner, and with minimal processing in a audio app, provides a passable impression of a classic and standard Shure SM58, which is about 10x the price, and has been something of an industry classic for decades. The downside is that it’s a standard XLR connection so to get audio into a PC you need an audio interface and they can be, well, there you do tend to get what you pay for and mine was relatively inexpensive, but still about £180. Then again, the same is true of that Shure, you still need a pre-amp/USB i/face to get audio into a PC.

            You can get pretty decent mic’s that are inherently USB, and don’t need the separate interface, but good ones still aren’t especially cheap. Say, £100-ish. All things said and done, it is certainly possible to get far better sound BUT, unless you’re earning from it, is it worth forking out £100 (or somewhat less, or a LOT more) on a microphone to do a review you’re not getting paid for?

            My perspective on that is that the audio isn’t that great, but the information in the reviews is, and the audio is certainly good enough to hear what you’re saying …. most of the time. There are the odd moments when when I suspect you’ve moved just a bit too far away, or a bit too far off axis and the sound drops right off for a few moments, but is the audio still perfectly serviceable? Yep.

            I’m pretty fussy about audio quality, and there are more than a few vid’s (not including yours), especially on Youtube, where the audio is so bad they’re not worth listening to. With me, they last about 10 seconds. Yours, I’ve watched the reviews on things I’m interested in right the way through, and several of them, several times. Like the Niche ones.

            If you were doing that for a living, my advice would be upgrade the sound. In many cases, sound is more important than the video. But you’re not, and the sound is certainly good enough.

            Thanks everyone, machine wise I’m down to the two I think(Liz /ACS) I’m now agonizing on the grinder, I’m looking at single dosers but there’s a lot of choice and info out there. Mazzer ? Mignon oro single dose?

            Mahkonhig? Maybe I should just choose the one I like the look of and get the journey of learning and enjoyment started!!

            @Stev What’s your budget? The Niche - Conical and Sole DF64 - Flat.

            Are you happy to modify, or would you rather it was single dose right out the box?

            Last time I looked, the Niche is still subject to a queue and several weeks of wait. I’m currently waiting - delivery in Jan.

            The Eureka Oro Single Doser has now started to hit retail, but only a few days ago. I haven’t checked for a couple of days but it may be they go out of stock again pretty quickly. A lot may depend on how much Eureka built up stocks from manufacturing to be able to ship in quantity once they started shipping at all. They might have kept them unreleased until they had good stocks, building anticipation all the time, or they might have deliberately shipped in small quantities as soon as they can, and dribbled out supply, a la Niche. The difference is, Niche is much smaller, much newer and financially may not have had a choice. If Eureka did that, it was marketing strategy not necessity.

            For a machine designed to be a single doser, the two best choices look to me to be the Niche and Eureka Oro …. at least in theory. The Eureka is too new for there to be many people with much experience, based on anything more than enough time for a ‘quick look’ or ‘initial impressions’. No doubt the world and his brother will be releasing “reviews” on Youtube etc in the near future. Eureka certainly ougth to have the grinder experience to produce a single doser without any major gotchas, but, until people get a good luck, it’s a bit of a punt. Niche at least is a known quantity, but then, you’ll have a wait for it.

            Two other questions I’d ask myself ….

            • flat v conical …. do I have a preference, and do I care?
            • what is it for? Espresso-only, or am I going to be switching between espresso and other brewing methods, like pourovers, a lot? In my case, I am, and I feel that gives the Niche an edge over what the Eureka looks to be like, but then, I haven’t yet physically had my hands on either to test it out.

            Oh, and I guess…

            • do you prefer one over the other in terms of style? And, do you care at all about that? I certainly prefer the Niche in appearance, but wouldn’t let that affect my choice if I thought the Eureka was better suited. However, when I ordered the Niche, there was still no firm date on the Oro, just an “expected in”.

              Stev - CoffeePhilE talks a lot of sense.

              On the “will you only be making espresso or immersion/ pourover/ other too?” - From what I’ve read the Oro’s adjustment means it could be awkward switching between the two. I have a Niche and switch between pourover/ immersion/ moka very easily. There will always be some retention, so if you go from a fine grind to a pourover, you can tell but I have never been concerned. Various options for bellows etc.

              Mazzer Major is a popular conversion. Do you mind buying second hand? I’ve never had one, but there is a lot online about them.

              Mahkonhig - again never had one, but would you get one even second hand for that budget?

              Looks like my wait for a machine will be a bit longer. Black Cat sold out of their SS Minima’s very fast. Caught me off guard.

                  Hi Steve, it’s Steve here 🤣.

                  I have the profitec 700pro and would highly recommend it.

                  I started off with a Lelit Mara x and various constant faults mostly with sensors resulted in it being returned and upgraded for the Profitec.

                  I have never had a problem with the 700pro and the results im getting are amazing so if it’s in your price range, then take a look.