Hi All Just wondering how you decide when to stop your shots. I have been following brew ratio, which I then adjust based upon taste. I also watch time to some degree, trying to avoid running too short in time (say less than 20 seconds) or too long (say more than 40 seconds). I do pay attention to the stream/flow, particularly if the shot takes too long to show on the shower screen and the stream is thin, resulting in a long timeframe. I have not at all watched the colour of the stream. Should I? I have seen some posts (in various places) suggesting that one gets greater extraction and taste by grinding as fine as the machine will allow, without stopping. Any merit in that? It does not make sense to me. Thoughts?

Always ratio (ie weight) for me. I monitor the time and use that to adjust the grind size for next time. Then I adjust from there based on taste

@"JHCCoffee"#p28958 I don’t think there are any rules! The general expectation is 30-35s. I only time my shot when a fresh bag is opened. As we have the Evo at home, I don’t cut the shot by weight, but by bar pressures as they consistently gives me 1.1:5 to 1 to 1:2.5. I prefer 1:2 to 1-2.5 irrespective of the roast. You can tell if the shot is faster or slower. I would look to tweak if less than 20s or exceeds 45s. I would say go by taste.

Pretty much the same as @"LMSC"#p28967 - including preferences for the ratio, although I'm curious about re-trying some specific (and very dark) coffees with a much shorter ratio. I'd still use pressure to do so, as it's very reliable and far less of a faff for my setup than using scales.

> @"JHCCoffee"#p28958 I have seen some posts (in various places) suggesting that one gets greater extraction and taste by grinding as fine as the machine will allow, without stopping. Any merit in that? It does not make sense to me. I don't understand this. How can determine "as fine as the machine will allow"? If "the machine" in this case is the grinder, then my machine will not produce any coffee. If "the machine" here is the coffee machine, then that statement makes no sense to me, what so ever - as in, you can grind as fine as you can, and let the machine just drip coffee. You might end up with a 2 minute shot, or maybe a 3 minute shot, but surely that's hardly ideal. So yeah… I don't get it :-)

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p28978 If “the machine” in this case is the grinder, then my machine will not produce any coffee Kafatek has a wonderful new machine. Its called the Monolith Espresso. It automatically grinds to your specifications, doses and tamps the portafilter and pours the perfect shot. 😁 > I don't understand this. How can determine "as fine as the machine will allow"? If "the machine" in this case is the grinder, then my machine will not produce any coffee. If "the machine" here is the coffee machine, then that statement makes no sense to me, what so ever - as in, you can grind as fine as you can, and let the machine just drip coffee. You might end up with a 2 minute shot, or maybe a 3 minute shot, but surely that's hardly ideal. So yeah… I don't get it. I don’t get it either. However I’ve seen numerous posts (in various places) about folks running slow flow, long shots to get better extraction and presumably taste. I think those shots will just be over extracted. However I just put it out there for comment. PS Welcome your response on how you stop your shots. Its kind of a newbie question, but I’ve seen various approaches to it. Some leading baristas insist that that only way is to stop a shot after it blonds. Others say ignore that and focus on brew ratio. Still others say target 30 seconds, while other pundits say time is not as important. So I put it out there for discussion, if anyone is interested.

Ratio and grind adjustments. Time isn't a factor I consider.

> @"Rob1"#p28986 Ratio and grind adjustments. Time isn’t a factor I consider Got it! However is there a minimum time that you’d say, this shot is running too fast? Or a maximum that its just to slow? For example, as long as the shot is between say 25 and 45 seconds, should we just ignore the time factor? Thoughts? What about watching for blonding? Is that now passe? Or maybe shots that blonde with 25 to 45 seconds have a better chance of being decent? Or not?

Blonding isn't relevant and will change from lighter or darker roasts. No, I don't really take time into consideration at all. Which is to say, I don't taste a shot and think it's good and then tell myself it'll be better if I get it closer to 25 seconds. Shot time is just a product of ratio and grind size. I've had plenty of coffee dialled in for over 50 seconds, even over a minute. Also had a few good that ran closer to 20 seconds but not many.

> @"JHCCoffee"#p28985 Welcome your response on how you stop your shots By ratio. I.e.: I dose 18g, and I stop at 36g, or 37g, or 40g, depending how good my reflexes are first thing in the morning! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 - to add to that, my scale is laggy! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 > @"JHCCoffee"#p28985 about folks running slow flow, long shots to get better extraction and presumably taste. I think those shots will just be over extracted. If your machine has flow control, no harm in trying it out. It wouldn’t be over extracted either, as you are pushing less water through the puck compared to a steady pressure/steady flow machine. He Elizabeth has no flow control so not much I can do on that department.

It's all averages which are quite old. So you cant really use them for every bean. It's a bit like the BMI it doesn't work for everyone Then you throw things in like slayer shots Where people are pulling 60second shots on machines with lacking temp stability 🤷 You have to be driven off taste but also your equipment, When I had the l1 for me it made great ristretto shots, the Bianca was very good all round, the leva brings even more variables to the table. With coffee there's just too many factors in play to be bang on all the time, anyone who tells you different is probably on YouTube selling 😂

How Do You Stop Your Shots - Brew Ratio, Time, Blonding?

JHCCoffee

Rob1

Hi Rob. Your and others suggestions proved to be most helpful. For example, I have a decaf bean that is roasted by an Italian oriented espresso roaster (Milano - Harmony blend) that I had enjoyed and had managed to dial in with my earlier Bartaza Sette 270 and heavily modded Breville DuoPro (with dimmer type flow control, improved brass water distribution plate -with multiple flow output holes, IMS screen and 18g IMS baskets, temp surfing, bottomless PF, etc.).

However I encountered challenges in dialing in this dark (almost espresso roast) bean with my Lelit. Milano Harmony Decaf .

I was initially running shots with a finer grind, at 13.5 in and 20 out, using an IMS 15 g basket, running 45 seconds including an 8 second bloom pre-infusion. I managed to get the acidic vs sourness notes in somewhat balance, but there was no complexity or lingering flavours, as a straight shot or in milk. Going to 25 out made the shot taste “thin and without flavor” as did 24 out.

Then I tried Rob1’s advice for this bean type / smell. I coarsened the grind a couple of notches and ran the shot to 13.5 in and 26 out. And lo and behold, I started to extract flavours. Pleasant ones, not burnt or ashy or smoky. I then tried a couple of notches courser and 27 out, and detected burnt, ashy notes. So I will next go back to 26 out, same grind.

So …. Thank-you Rob1 and all !! 🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️🙇‍♂️

Any further general suggestions on dialing in various bean varieties and roasts will be welcome. Or Rob1, you can just give me your cell # and I will message you for guidance when I am dialing in. 💬💬💬 😁

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