MediumRoastSteam Oily, I daresay
Why single dose?
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hornbyben OK, so the experiment was carried out as follows:
Beans: Coffee Compass Malabar Hit Mahogany Roast (medium/dark). 500 gr. bag roasted 3 October, opened 15 October morning and split into 2 equal parts. One poured directly into hopper, one left in original bag; bag carefully wrapped closed to reduce air inside, secured with two elastic bands and put into freezer immediately.
The ‘new’ beans were taken out of the freezer and poured into the “closed” hopper immediately. Condensation formed outside the hopper, but the beans were dry. They were at ambient temperature by the time I pulled the second shot.
Last shot of the first half bag - 17.1 grams
Cleaned grinder - including using “bellows” and running empty for 10 seconds
Purged with new beans in hopper until flow of grounds was regular
First shot of the new bag - 16.9 grams at same grinder setting.
WDT and my ‘normal’ tamp for both shots into an IMS 14/18 grams basket.
Both brewed at 91.5 °C group / 97.5 °C boiler, 12 seconds pre-infusion @ 2 bar, into 42 / 43 grams of liquid. Curiously for me, the second shot ran a bit faster, but the first had a couple of drops in the cup at 12 seconds, the second was ‘dry’ until I released the lever. Basically, I would say that any differences here are due more to differences in prep than anything else.
“Last” shot
“First” shot
By the time I got to tasting, the first shot had cooled quite a bit and the crema was partly gone. Both were recognisably the same coffee - bittersweet chocolate, with spicy notes, a bit of burnt orange (?) and good body. The ‘fresh’ shot did taste fresher and more complex, but it may also have been the temperature. When I cut both with 20 grams of steamed milk, the impression reversed, and the ‘old’ shot tasted marginally better (a bit more ‘bitterness’ cutting through the milk sugars).
My wife and son also tasted both cups (black and with milk), and confirmed my impressions: small but perceivable difference in favour of the ‘new’ beans when black; a bit more bitterness in the ‘old’ ones when cut with milk - which we all found agreeable.
In summary - yes, there is a difference after 4 days. Would we have noticed without the back-to-back? Probably not, and the coffee remained very pleasant to taste.
I may try to split the next bag into 4, and run ¼ each in the steel pipe, with far less air and light than in the hopper and half the “open time” - after all, it’s exactly the same cost and workflow, other than opening the freezer 2 more times.
Whether all this says anything for, against or even about single dosing… I don’t know.
Thank you for suggesting the experiment!
CoyoteOldMan thanks for sharing. Looks like your setup works fine.
Although I single dose (as I bought a niche), I used to worry about coffee age and tried freezing etc. Now, unless it’s going to be around for ages, such as decaf that I keep around for friends, I just keep in a draw in the utility room. I typically drink within 4-6 weeks and can’t say I’ve noticed anything I can attribute as stale flavours.
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CoyoteOldMan Very nice!
Unless it’s the light, the last shot photo look a lot richer with a lot more crema than the first.
We know the coffee, when cooler, is going to taste different than hotter. You may consider making two short blacks to retain the temperature.
If you are going to continue the experiment, try single dosing next time. 😊
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LMSC The overall amount of crema (visually) was about the same at the end of the shot; however, the ‘old’ crema was less stable. In the rush, I forgot to put both cups in the same place, so the lighting is a bit different. The flavour was richer, but not dramatically so. “Obvious” when tasting back-to-back, but in a proper double blind 3-cup experiment, and at the same temperature - I don’t know.
When you say ‘short black’ do you mean something like an americano, with added hot water?
I don’t know what single dosing would reveal in terms of ‘bean stability’ - the Ceado works better if it has some beans in it (after the ‘last’ shot I purged about 15 grams of ‘old’ coffee); I fear it would only result in both “old” and “new” grinds containing chaff. Mind you, I could grind them both with the Omega in advance, and then just fill the basket. I would think that 5 minutes of air don’t degrade the ground coffee that much - or do they?
CoyoteOldMan When you say ‘short black’ do you mean something like an americano, so with added hot water?
Yes!
Great write-up, enjoyed that!
The other thing about single dosing for espresso is how flipping finicky espresso can be, especially light roasts.
Are people switching between light roasts, and nailing the extraction first time every time you switch? So you could line up 5 different single doses of different coffees (obviously having dialled them prior and noted the setting) and just get a great extraction from each?
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Ernie1 get a great extraction from each?
That’s my doubt. Not so much as ‘could you get a great extraction from each’, but ‘would that extraction taste consistently the same time after time’. Beans change from bag to bag and roast lot to roast lot, weather changes, tamping changes, grinder setting drifts (or changes if we move it back and forth between different coffees)… at what point do these uncontrollable but unavoidable variables count for more than the 0.2 grams more or less into dosing, the 0.x grams of ‘old grounds’ being exchanged, the 0.5 °C in temperature stability…
Just musing. Sometimes coffee making feels a bit like bike engine tuning among teenagers (or it did when I was one), or ‘audiophile’ music reproduction. Many minute, unrepeatable/untestable changes that however leave one with a distinct impression of failing - “that” shot was the best I ever tasted, and I can’t get it again, but I must keep trying.
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Exactly, this is what I’m wondering. I just can’t imagine going from a medium roast, and then dropping a dose of light roast in, adjusting the grind, getting both perfect first time and pulling two (or more) totally different shots back to back. But then I haven’t owned a single dose grinder so perhaps this is exactly how it can be.
The chart suggests ‘fine, coarse, etc,
Presumably that means not an exact setting, so does it take more than one single dose to get it dialled again or would you just get it close?
If the latter, I foresee another experiment! A perfectly dialled in hopper-fed shot with slightly stale beans vs a ‘in the right ballpark’ single dose shot.
i think you just learn from experience,
like last night, i opened the new bean from black cat, dosed my usual dose, checked my book for the las rwandan coffee, set my grinder and got 41g in 48s, very nice shot, this morning i moved a touch coarser and got a quicker shot,
when i used to use the mazzer for both i could happily switch between my bean and the mrs bean,
the niche the same, you learn your grinder.
its never going to be an exact science way too many variables for that,
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
When I start a new bean, I simply pull the first shot on whatever grind settings I used perviously. Obviously if I were going from light to dark that strategy would not work! But the shot you are currently pulling, is only a reference point for the next one
Ernie1 would you just get it close?
I think you get it close - but how close is close enough? We all enjoy (in different amounts and at different times) the ‘tinkering’, but at some level each shot is unique.
I agree that you learn from experience. In my case, I’ve only been making espresso at home since February. I use a 9Barista, so the only things I have control over is the grind and dose. My grinder is a Baratza Virtuoso+, which is stepped, and I’ve learned that the steps on this grinder are large enough that there’s less control over the grind than I would like to have.
Even with these limitations, I’m at the point where I can start with a new bag of beans and have it dialed in within 2-3 shots. This is certainly not because I have a huge amount of espresso-making experience, especially compared to most of the folks here. Nor is it due to the high-end equipment that I have, although I just love the 9Barista.
I think the main factor is that I used the same grinder and set up every day for the last 9 months. By doing this every day, I learned what works and what doesn’t to get me to where I want to be. In fact, I think the fact that I can only control grind and dose helps, because it forced me to focus on just one factor at a time.
With my niche I find that if I’ve dialed in a bean (i.e. a specific batch), and note the grind size, then I can switch to another bean and back again with no issue.
For example, pull some decaf out of the freezer, set the grinder to the value I noted down, pull a good shot. Then set it back to the original setting and pull a good shot with the bean that was in there before. It’s sometimes a touch fast if switching from pour over back to espresso, but from espresso to espresso it’s pretty consistent. I’ve heard that conical burrs are a bit more forgiving in this respect though.
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hornbyben For example, pull some decaf out of the freezer, set the grinder to the value I noted down, pull a good shot. Then set it back to the original setting and pull a good shot with the bean that was in there before.
My Niche can also do that, but the limiting factor is me: I usually forget to set the grinder back after the shot. 🙃
I don’t drink a huge quantity of coffee. On average, probably 1.33 to 1.5 cups per day …. by which, obviously, I mean sometimes 1, sometimes 2, occassionally either 3 or none.
My objective is primarily to get a really nice drink, the maximum % of the time I can. It isn’t about experimentation, or fine tuning, for the hell of it. It’s simply that I want a really nice cuppa, every time (if I can).
I have both hopper-fed and single dose grinders and for me, single dosing is just so much better. Why? For a start, the single dose grinder is just a much better grinder. Also, more expensive so it should be. So I can discount that factor. But workflow-wise, I don’t have a problem with single dose.
The benefits, to me, are that I can switch beans, usually to decaf if drinking coffee in the evening. Also, I can switch from espresso to, say, V60, and back, very easily. Finally, and it may come back to the quality/price of the grinder again, I find the real key to meeting my primary objective (best cuppa I can, as near 100% of the time as I can) is consistency and repeatability - the closer I can get to doing the same thing (weight, grind, prep, tamp pressure etc, the closer I can get to repeatability and I get (from weighing notes) FAR more consistency in weight of ground coffee with the single doser.
Result - I rarely use the hopper. Last time was months ago.
But ultimately, it’s “horses for courses”. The above suits me. That doesn’t mean I necessarily think it’ll suit everybody else. For those that prefer hoppers, fair enough. If that’s what you like, it’s what you like. For me, single dosing all the way and if it does prove to be a fad and everybody goes back to hoppers, I guarantee it’ll be everybody except me. 😀