Ernie1 To me, conical highlights the more delicate flavours, brings out more acidity and overall has a thinner mouthfeel. These are characteristics I’d typically want in lighter roasts.
The flat to me has a richness, thicker mouthfeel and blends the flavours of darker roasts in a more enjoyable fashion
What’s interesting about these statements is that this goes completely against what most say on the internet. goes to show how personal and subjective taste is.
MediumRoastSteam What’s interesting about these statements is that this goes completely against what most say on the internet. goes to show how personal and subjective taste is.
Exactly! I am surprised. I like these type of different take on grinders.
I think as @tompoland says, burr geometry is playing a big part in my findings. I know there’s a subjectivity to it but I’d be surprised if anyone else wouldn’t notice the same as me (thicker body on the flat) with the exact grinders and coffee I’m comparing.
Comparing the Niche to my C40, the burrs on the Niche are 50% larger which will inevitably be making a big difference.
Perhaps a Niche vs a Super Jolly is a better side by side comparison. Even then I think there are too many other factors to say a once and for all ‘conicals taste X, flats taste Y’.
I don’t know how much each of these affect the result but you’ve got motor speed, burr alignment, burr orientation, burr teeth design, how seasoned they are etc etc before you even get into the coffee, age of coffee, how fresh it is, how it’s been stored, if it’s single dosed, WDT’d etc etc.
A lot of factors.
lancehedrick absolutely! I genuinely do try my best to be the in between of, say, Dave and Hoffmann. Meaning, quirky entertainment and deep dives. I don’t feign to have the knowledge or experience of Dave, nor the affability of Hoffmann, but I have helped a lot of people and that makes me happy.
One of the best things about Youtube is the diversity of both opinion and presentation. Personally, I’ve viewed quite a few videos from all three of you (and others) and I wouldn’t do that if I didn’t enjoy watching, and find them useful. The difference in style and approach only helps that.
It’s good to see you here. If nothing else, it means I can say thanks, for some excellent and very helpful material. Keep it up. ;)
If you grind a bean on a conical that is more suited to a conical (probably medium and above) then would you be surprised if it tasted better than if ground on a flat……and vice versa! I always respect those who have a palate that works properly (unlike mine) but I also respect my pal @DavecUK who drinks mediumish beans yet chose a Ceado E92 before his Niche and both are conical. I wonder if those who are lucky enough to have both……if they really really tried hard to tinker with their grinders, could not actually achieve neigh on the same results with both
dfk41 just realized I didn’t answer your last query. It is certainly possible to have some flat and some conical burrs producing a similar taste and viscosity. But there are others where it would be close to impossible e.g. a Niche Zero conical burrs versus flat burrs from a Moca. The 80mm burrs on the EG-1 however could produce similar flavor to an 83mm Mazzer Robur conical, given the right pressure/temperature profile.. Not the same but close enough.
Ernie1 Sprometheus did a video a while back comparing flats and conicals - his findings are similar to yours but not completely. He’s comparing a Mazzer Mini to a Niche with a medium roast coffee.
I was always under the impression the difference between flats and conicals are the way the grind beans, so flats produce more even slices whilst conicals produce more flakes and taste is the result of the geometry. - I could be totally wrong though 😅
Good to know I’m not the only one who thinks flats create the choc/caramel richness and muted acidity.
Now there’s two of us!
MWJB Do you happen to have a link to that study, would be interesting to see the methodology and maybe repeat it
Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more
http://magnatune.com/p/grinder_report.pdf I found the paper it is based on.
It is an interesting test but I would like to see it redone with more modern grinders and a larger variety of roasts. This report came out just at the advent of EK43’s being used and higher extraction being pushed, the largest flat burr was a 75mm mythos which is generally only used for espresso, at least now. I would like to see SSP burrs for the flats, larger conicals, even the new kafatek shurikones, and hybrid burrs like the DRM burrs. A range of roasts levels and coffees would be good as well because nordic light roasts are not used by everyone.
It does make for an interesting read and I am surprised there aren’t more similar tests with data such as this, I would like to try and replicate something like this and see what data I can find
Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more
Problem is if they did it today and got the same result it would render £4k grinders pointless 😂😂😂
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
InfamousTuba So, it’s not conicals vs flats that’s the question, it’s conicals & most flats vs a very, very tiny sample of esoteric grinders that have only appeared in the last few years (subsequently, rendering the question at the time of asking as moot?).
I tend to think as people seek to ascertain a solid & repeatable difference between flat & conical, the goalposts for testing will just continue to move until the test has no real world value.
EK had been in use for over 25years, at least for 4 of those (prior to this study) by Scott Rao, who has since said he reckons his EK was not typical and 90% of them don’t give similar results. He has also reported high extractions from conical hand & electric grinders (not that I have been able to replicate these).
