Why not descale?

dndrich

OK, I descale my drip coffee maker, and my old Breville thermoblock Barista Express. Now that I have the Lelit Elizabeth, why not descale it yearly? It is a pretty dilute mixture of citric acid. Where is the harm?

JHCCoffee

I am quite curious about the pros and cons, for the Lelit E and in general.

I used to descale my Breville DuoPro (one bit the bullet, the other I use at my cottage, for the moment) with diluted vinegar. Then I was told by my local espresso machine repair tech that this is a big no no, and that I should only use espresso descaling solution from my local Espresso equipment supply store. And so I did, on the BDP.

But I have not descaled my Lelit E, having read @DavecUK ’s maintenance bible. And given that I only use @Rob1 ’s ZeroWater and sodium bicarbonate recipe, and fully flush my machine bi-weekly, I wonder whether I will need to or should ever descale.

dndrich

I am using tap water and a Lelit filter that I change every 6 months. So I assume I will get some scale. I just want to understand why if using properly set up descaling solution this would be a problem?

Ernie1

I might be wrong but my understanding is that descaling can damage components in the process of removing scale. It can affect plating and other surfaces, maybe affect hoses and electrical components. I’ve also read it can be require enormous amounts of flushing before any descaling solution taste is no longer present.

My question is still how long it would take for scale to build to a point descaling is necessary. I suppose there’s too many variables to accurately estimate but as a ballpark, I’m wondering how bad using exclusively bottled water and flushing the steam boiler weekly is vs. say using RO or other treated water.

Also @dndrich I understand the water in some parts of the US is of very good quality and soft. Here in the UK there are areas where taking a shower feels like stepping into the wrong side of a sandblasting booth naked.

dutchy101

Preventative is always better than curative

dndrich

dutchy101 Of course. But having to do so much water prep rather than just use my good local tap water and a filter removes so much hassle factor. If descaling once a year without risk of significant damage were easy to do, I would much rather do that. This is why I am asking what the problem is with descaling. Commercial machines are descaled quite a bit so I am told.

dutchy101

Small bits of scale getting into pipes etc. terrify me. Happy to go through the slog of safe water, which isn’t too big a deal one you get used to it

SurreyAlan

My Sage Barista Express was still working fine when it was sent to the loft after 5 years use, despite being fed with hard tap water and only having the filter changed at 18 month intervals with descaling perhaps once a year, the shower screen only came off a few times too. Suppose as there’s no boiler it was only descaling pipes but the Sage dual boiler seems very simple to descale two flushes of the boilers and they say its done.

Rob1

The PITA of descaling a brew boiler of a traditional dual boiler is one thing, chunks of scale floating around and ending up stopping solenoids from closing properly or just clogging thin pipes is another concern. There’s no real way of knowing how often you’ll have to descale to avoid problems either (either as a result of descaling and dislodging chunks or because of the scale build up alone and it may take some time for you to even realise there is a problem that requires some more involving maintenance or replacement parts e.g you notice a puddle under the machine). So there is the potential for harm without mentioning minor things like plating damage in the group etc.

Tap and bottled water vary in composition (despite what labels and water reports tell you) so calculating the rate of scaling is impossible, you just have to decide on an interval and go with it. Consistency of the water composition is key to repeatable results over time and there are some things you want and don’t want in the water for taste too. So generally, the more consistent your supply the better whether you have to descale or not, and if you do have to descale, you can figure out how often. You’d hope bottled water would average out over time to reflect what it says on the label….

hornbyben

I think it’s generally consider that citric acid is a fairly safe descaler, and easy to by at the supermarket. I can imagine it would take a fair bit of flushing to get rid of the taste in a large boiler machine.

For my single boiler machine I feed it Thames Valleys finest rock hard water that’s been filtered through a Brita filter. I descale based on a calculation that the fancy mod I did does, using the hardness (which I took from the water report, so an overestimate as I filter), temperature and volume of water pumped through. This is generally every couple of months.

I’ve never had any issues and find it fairly easy to do. It takes about 2L of flushing the 300ml boiler to remove all citric acid taste.

I’ve heard single boilers are easier to flush than dual boilers though.

MediumRoastSteam

hornbyben - I did exactly the same with my Gaggia Classic back in the day - Thames Water Finest unfiltered edition. I used to descale every 2 months. Life was simple.

On a dual boiler or HX machine, ring, lever or E61, E61… would I do the same? Hell no. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣