I’m experimenting with grinding directly into the PF basket (IMS BaristaPro 58.5mm in Lelit E bottomless PF). Is it better (from a grinds distribution perspective) to grind: 1. **close to the chute output**, which means that I will be using a short funnel (as distinct from a cylinder) that extends beyond the rim of the basket. The combination of this funnel and the reduced gap between the funnel edge and the grinder limits any movement of the pf/basket to better distribute the grinds as they flow out from the chute. As a result the grounds mound is not as evenly distributed as I would like. I in any event then remove the funnel (after grinding) and replace it with an OE cylinder for WDT purposes, as the cylinder nicely sits on the basket rim. From a workflow perspective one must however hold the PF or basket, which means that you cannot do other things while dosing. 2. **Slightly further from the chute**, using both the above referenced funnel and the OE cylinder, sitting on a block of wood. This allows the rotation of the basket for somewhat better distribution, and is somewhat handsfree. But there is now an increased vertical distance from the bottom of the chute to the basket, which may or not be a good thing. 3. **Placing the basket on the wood NZ base** (cup holder), with either the funnel or funnel:OE cylinder combo or a taller cylinder that I would buy. This placement also allows rotation of the basket, but not lateral movement for improved distribution. It is also vertically furthest from the NZ chute. 4. **Acquiring some type of bottomless PF stand** that works with a Lelit E bottomless PF. This would be handsfree and direct into the PF (with funnel), which is good from a workflow perspective. However the PF will be vertically higher up. And there will be no ability to move ir rotate the PF for better distribution. If I did this, any suggestions for/links to a stand? Btw, this thread was not intended to be about the merits of using a distribution cup vs direct to basket, which is an entirely different topic. One corollary to this thread is whether WDT is beneficial or not, when direct dosing to the basket. I have been using @"lancehedrick"#742 ’s deep/mid/top WDT approach with 0.35 mm needles, an am this AM testing 0.30mm needles. What are your thoughts on: a) distribution and b) workflow? (thinking outside of the precise NZ box, for the moment).

@"JHCCoffee"#p32280 - you are over complicating…. If you want to grind into the PF directly, grind into the portafilter with a 3cm funnel sitting on top of the basket. WDT (or not, whatever works for you… WDT works for me) and enjoy your coffee! If you don’t use a stand yet, just place under the spout and that’s it! The closer to the spout the more static you’ll get clinging to the spout or grinder front. Those are simple things to try for yourself. Just give it a go and see what works for you. 👍

> @"JHCCoffee"#p32280 Acquiring some type of bottomless PF stand I'm expecting a Decent PF stand in the next few days to use with a Bianca PF. I'll let you know if it's a success or not. Edit: I assumed the Elizabeth and Bianca PFs are the same but I'm not sure about that.

@"Penance"#p32285 - they are not, in terms of “out of the box” stuff. The Elizabeth does not come with a bottomless portafilter. I use an ECM one. Rocket works, and so does the Lelit ones, of course. Other E61s would work too as long as the lugs are not thicker than usual (e.g.: quickmill)

Ah, probably not much help then.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p32281 you are over complicating I’ve very much appreciated all of your great espresso advice @"MediumRoastSteam"#p32287. Its really helped. 🙏 And I love your focus on … if it tastes good to you then it works. …. which keeps _anal_ysts like me from chasing down too many rabbitholes. 🐇☕️🐇🐇☕️🐇🐇🐇☕️🤪 My unfortunate challenge is that I (for health reasons) can only drink decaf. And um the choice of good decaf roasted beans here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada is somewhat limited. So many local roasters just do not know how to properly roast decaf beans. And choice from local roasters that do know how (and can be bothered to) is limited. So I often end up having to struggle to get the most out of a bean that (if I had the choice) I’d rather just toss in the bin. So, I end up having to use every trick in the espresso book to dial in and eventually pull good (and just sometimes great tasting) shots. Every incremental (sometimes minute) positive step can add up to something great. The frustration (and joy) of espresso is that it’s not a linear journey; you have to consistently get everything right. Lately though its been coming together, in part due to my anal focus on grind distribution through better WDT technique, thanks to @"lancehedrick"#742 and @"tompoland"#121 . Hopefully my latest acquisition of 0.30mm needles sends things over the top. Or not. This latest thread is meant to help me, and maybe others, in that journey. It’s sometimes one step forward, two back, three forward, but you do get there.

> @"Penance"#p32285 I’m expecting a Decent PF stand in the next few days to use with a Bianca PF. I’ll let you know if it’s a success or not. Hope all goes well. What funnel and or cylinder did you get? How is that working out?

> @"JHCCoffee"#p32301 What funnel and or cylinder did you get? How is that working out? The Decent tall funnel, both in transit to me. I'm hoping it will do the trick.

Decent funnel is £££££ Erm I don't think it matters Some people tap others wdt, what every you prefer, all things being equal as in no crazy channels I don't think you'd know

> @"Penance"#p32302 The Decent tall funnel, both in transit to me. > I’m hoping it will do the trick. Hi Penance. Just wondering how everything worked out for you? Did you receive the Decent PF stand? How is that working out? And the Decent funnel. Is that working well? What about your other NZ teething pains? All OK? Putting through a couple of kg of cheap coffee to help settle in the burrs was suggested and sounds like a good idea.

@"JHCCoffee"#p32824 The package from decent has cleared customs and is with the Royal Mail. With the current mail strikes and Xmas Post I think I'll be lucky to see it this side of Christmas :/ I've put around 5kg through the NZ, handily a friends grinder packed up so I did a couple of KG for him. Still have static issues, it's a messy affair using the NZ. I did a back to back with the NZ and Specialita over the weekend, it may just be that I'm accustomed to the Specialita but I think I preferred it. I will revisit that in another week or so. Overall I have to admit, the NZ feels like a sidestep rather than an upgrade. I'll carry on for a while but the upgrade bug is nagging.

NZ - Grinding Into PF Basket or Basket w Bottomless PF

JHCCoffee

JesmondJester

I also have a couple of other recently roasted/purchased decaf beans(from different roasters) that are currently resting and will be ready for tasting in 3 weeks. I’ll share my thoughts on these, after I dial them in.

My go to roaster in Toronto is Goldstar. They roast a Hawaiian Kona Decaf and an Espresso Blend Decaf, that they combine and bag for me (⅔ Kona and ⅓ Espresso). The roast is Full City to Full City+ and it is consistently good. I have a well dialed in espresso recipe for that bean and my Niche. They buy high quality beans and know how to roast decaf. Their service is fantastic! I email George: “4 more pounds of X please” (or any quantity I want) and he acknowledges my order within hours, and ships it that or the next day. I generally have fresh roasted beans in my hands within 48 to at most 72 hours of my email. He follows with a Paypal invoice that I instantly pay. I’ve even enjoyed same day delivery when I’ve run unexpectedly short. We are currently chatting about his adding another decaf bean to his repertoire, but he needs to do his due diligence to ensure he has a regular supply of consistently high quality decaf green beans. Goldstar

JesmondJester

JHCCoffee fantastic! Thank you!

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