Inspector That is exactly what I would do!
Niche Zero V2 ?
The df64 works, and the more recent revisions have solved some of the problems but it doesn’t seem to be that great to use still and it is a compromise. Hopefully a nice to use 64mm grinder that isn’t as expensive as a lagom p64 or acaia orbit might hit the right spot in the market
Coffee Roaster. Home: Sage Dual Boiler, Niche Zero, Ode v2 (SSP), 1zpresso ZP6 Work: Eagle One Prima EXP, mahlkonig e80s, Mazzer Philos and lots more
ajohn I wonder if anything else has matched Niche for retention?
There are a couple that I know of.
The Olympia Moca SD. At least, it’s been better on my espresso bench. The Niche is exceptionally low retention but the Moca SD is even better.
To clarify: My experience of the niche as well as the Weber EG-1 was that the retention was pretty darned good at around 0.3 g but every now then they would simply drop a significant sized clump of coffee out and the Moca SD does not do that.
Benchtop handgrinders such as the Malwani Livi are also amongst the best because there is no chute or anything else (literally) between the burrs and the catch cup. But not everyone can be bothered with hand grinding.
Moca SD here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/blog/1253-olympia-moca-sd-first-looks-review-november-2022
Livi here: https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/blog/1341-malwani-livi-seven-month-review-december-2022
If any of you are London based or close I’m happy for you to try mine
Long time Niche Zero owner here as well. The workflow is gloriously good, especially if you are ever forced to occasionally use and old doser style grinder (e.g. Macap). As much as I can appreciate a less-is-more elegance of the Niche, yeah, the aesthetic is just tough to be a real fan of. And I always wonder at what point is the white plastic going to turn to that cream yellow of a 1994 windows PC.
I did order a new Femobook A68 grinder a few months ago (still waiting for it to ship). It’s design is a bit antithetical to the NZ. …Precision milling, cool looking. Now, watch, in the grand irony, it will probably work like crud. 😃
Pete
ACS Vesuvius, Evo Leva, Minima, Cafelot Robot
Qty 2, Femobook A68, Niche Zero
Arc800 RTD Roaster
I think the main issue with the Niche, is that it looks like a typical bit of kitchen kitsch without making you realise that under the skin is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. In the old days I used to have a man cave where it did not matter what kit I had. Now, I share an open plan kitchen so in my humble opinion, looks wise (not that I could give a monkeys!) the Niche fits far better into this arrangement. Ultimately though, the Niche is never ever going to be uncrowned, especially at the price point, unless an equivalent to Martin Nicholson comes along and designs a grinder from the feet upwards, taking his time and spending years in testing and development and of course, then meeting @DavecUK ……..keep checking the sky at night mateys……that shining star might appear one day……..
MediumRoastSteam just a heads up - I know they are highly regarded around for coffee equipment but I wouldn’t bother buying the DF64 from Bella Barista. I had extremely poor support from them with this grinder and basically their technical teams didn’t have a clue about it. I guess pricier espresso machines are their focus so spending time on a £400 grinder either isn’t their strong suit or just isn’t worth it for them.
if you are local to them then it might be easier but if not I’d just go elsewhere to somewhere that doesn’t expect you to pay for return postage if an issue arises within the warranty period. It all just comes from the same factory anyway.
I’m not sold on these Chinese grinders, saw on another forum one had cross threaded the top adjuster and the grinders now a paper weight.
There build to a price point.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
FadedFrontiers wouldn’t bother buying the DF64 from Bella Barista
I get what you are saying, but in the UK there aren’t many other places from where you can buy this grinder anyway. Their price is not bad either.
Ernie1 Isn’t that where the Niche is made?
Think what Jake means is that those are designed in China. I’m not sure “designed” is the right word here, as if they do have a design team, they don’t quite understand what single dose is. For me, the biggest example is the chute screen. It’s now the fourth iteration of the df64 and it seems that they go from some sort of “slightly annoying problem” to “a very annoying one” - to the point the latest chute screen is double up and useless, according to reviews. It just increase retention and regrinding rather than actually fix the issue of retention. So the first thing people do is they open the grinder up and remove one of them, half cut the other or just buy a new chute+screen combo from Etsy. That I honestly don’t understand what goes on with the “design” team. If the community has been feedbacking and modding the df64 since V1, with readily available mods, why can’t they take the feedback and make the grinder as such, from the factory? I’d rather buy something that works out of the box rather than mod it.
Contrast that with the Niche which has a thoughtful and methodical design behind it (note: I don’t really care where it’s designed or made) to the point that Martin would not even contemplate releasing the product until he and his team are happy the product is viable and functional up to the high standards set. And that I applaud.
- Edited
Cuprajake saw on another forum one had cross threaded the top adjuster
There are plenty of horror stories of people cross threading Mazzer collars. I had a Profitec T-64 made in Germany and the collar threads were very thin (for a reason). With something like that, one needs to be aware and take the right precautions. There’s no escape. 😉
Sorry I meant cheap quality in parts , and materials. They can build as good as any in the world as long as the qc and materials are of a certain quality,
But presumably the pay master is in charge of the quality of stuff used not the guy on the shop floor.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
I’d argue there are a few more mazzer out there than df64 though haha but I know what you’re saying
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Cuprajake - that’s true!
I remember with the T64 I was extremely careful when removing the collar. Presumably one of the reasons why Grindz is popular and recommended! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ernie1 Isn’t that where the Niche is made?
- There are factories and there are factories
- there are workers and there are trained and skilled workers
- There are parts and there are parts
- There is manufacturing equipment and manufacturing equipment
- There is quality control and there is quality control
In reality there are chinesium products and proper products e.g. Iphone, Niche, etc..
tompoland To clarify: My experience of the niche as well as the Weber EG-1 was that the retention was pretty darned good at around 0.3 g but every now then they would simply drop a significant sized clump of coffee out and the Moca SD does not do that.
That’s not my experience with Niche. Like most I found first dose needed a couple of extra beans and then forget it. @DavecUK looked at carry over from that. As using the can I check weighed for yonks. I do get build up at the top of the chute but the rate per shot doesn’t show up on 1/10g scales. It doesn’t fall out. It may build up very quickly. Next time I clean it I will have a closer look at this and weigh it when I get it out. I’d like to find complete info on totally dismantling it as well.
There are 2 aspects on retention. What goes in comes out and what is left behind that may cause carry over problems etc. That can only be looked at from dead clean. Then comes the run the burrs in problem. ;) Even an SGP needs that and needs shots run to settle from clean. It can weigh in well but broken beans collect on top of the burrs. It settles to a point where one or two chips may or may not fall into the burrs. I’ve run a mazzer mini with what goes in comes out. I mentioned this to my son, One time he used it 1/10g short so I told him what to do to get the other ⅒ out.
dfk41 Now, I share an open plan kitchen so in my humble opinion, looks wise (not that I could give a monkeys!) the Niche fits far better into this arrangement.
Hence me mentioning the difference with this designer.
Talk about grinds and burrs. What chance does Niche have of producing the same grind as a Kony with it’s hopper on. I’d say zero. Probably more so than the difference on flat as more grinds need to forced out - the reason people were reluctant to use them - a lot more trapped grinds when the hopper is used,
Ernie1 I just meant I’m not sure if she’d be over the moon if I bought a second espresso machine.
Yeh I got that, I was just replying tongue in cheek
DavecUK In reality there are chinesium products and proper products e.g. Iphone, Niche, etc..
A lot of Chinese products are C-E marked. As industry has found out to its cost the C-E stands for China Export. At the end of the day, as you say, Good design and adherence to high quality standards results in good manufacturing, wherever the product is built.
I hadn’t looked for this info for some time