Flat vs Conical - in terms of lingering taste

DrForinor

Just curious, is there a likelihood of the flavour lingering more with a conical than a flat?

Reason I’m asking, although I seem to be getting the notes from what the bag suggests, the taste doesn’t last all that long. I remember coffee from conicals having a longer lasting taste in the mouth (from the same beans).

tompoland

DrForinor can’t see why they would but not 100% sure.

The Moca SD has flat burrs and the flavor lingers for a long time.

That said, I think the far greater impact is going to be the profile/recipe used when pouring.

For example, one of my favorite pours uses a pre-infusion time of ~20 seconds and a grind so fine that I have literally only a few drops in the cup by the end of the pre-infusion. Then I have the pressure such so I am getting an average of 1ml/sec (flow rate) in the cup> The result is like a double ristretto and the flavor is more intense and lingers longer.

Versus a more standard pour with say 5 seconds pre-infusion and a flow rate of say 2ml/seconds.

What is the espresso machine you are using?

Ernie1

There was a thread somewhere about the two being compared.

I may be alone in this but I’m resigned to the idea that literally every one of us tastes and interprets flavour nuances differently so what one person thinks or what the gospel says, or what James Hoffman says isn’t automatically true.

The common opinion suggests you get more clarity from a flat (suited to lighter roasts) and more body, richness from a conical (suited to medium) and my experience has always been entirely the opposite. Same coffee back to back on my C40 vs SJ and medium roasts taste unquestionably richer and thicker on the flat, thinner and brighter on the conical. Was the same on my x54 vs a Vario. Admittedly I’ve not tried a ‘higher end’ conical.

There’s too many variables really to accurately answer - coffee, roast type, burr shape and size, and as above, individual taste.

DrForinor

I’m not necessarily comparing different roasts since I am comparing the same beans from different burr sets.

I think I must fall into the majority camp where the flat burr has more clarity but the taste doesn’t seem to last as long in the mouth.

Admittedly, I really love and prefer the clarity, but do miss the lingering.

Rob1

DrForinor Admittedly, I really love and prefer the clarity, but do miss the…

Just grind a little coarser and pull a longer shot on the conical if you want clarity.

I don’t note any muddled flavours with an 83mm flat vs Niche but then I alter the ratio and dial in to get the best shot. Light roasts tend not to do well as espresso for the majority of grinders whether flat or conical unless you’ve got something exotic. You can certainly try to grind finer with a good flat than a conical but that doesn’t mean the results will be good.

DrForinor

tompoland Yes that makes sense, I was thinking about playing around with the ratio etc to vary results.

I have the Elizabeth, which shows pre-infusion up to 6 seconds, and I usually set it to bloom for another 6 seconds before the pressure starts. Perhaps allow the bloom phase to last longer?

tompoland

DrForinor have a play with it because it still amazes me how varied the results can be from one kitchen to another. My guess would be to keep everythingas is other than to grind finer.

The key for me has been to reduce the flow rate by grinding finer because I’ve been doing this on a sprung lever where I can not easily alter the flow rate by adjusting the pressure once I release the pressure. Instead, I restrict the flow rate by grinding a little finer.

JonWoo187

I honestly don’t see THAT much difference in notes with flat vs conical, all things dialed in as equal as possible. Biggest difference I find with coffees that I roast is texture, with conicals giving me heavier texture, which I value equally as much as taste. Biggest impact overall on taste/texture is clearly the coffee itself and I’ll never rely on burr type to offset that.

I do like manual grinding over any electric and might really go old school in this manner. Will choose a roofing hammer/anvil for the flat and mortar/pestle for the conical approach and really look for a solid performer.

DrForinor

tompoland That was certainly going to be my first go-to, to grind finer.

Looking forward to experimenting 🙂👍🏼

Cuprajake

ive always found flat to give better separation of flavors over conical,

this was ssp and stock mazzer burrs, niche vs major.

not that the niche gives a bad cup, just more muddled, vs the flat, had the niche been all id known i would never worry

DrForinor

Cuprajake It was the muddled notes that are known to accompany conical (by and large) that swayed me towards flat. In that regard, I have no regrets as I can already taste the difference.

Cuprajake

DrForinor yeah you will,

i think it also depends what you drink, and the bean

i mean personally if i bought a £3000 grinder and then drank coffee near second crack in alot of milk its wasted on me, were as the same grinder could be perfect for ultra light nordic roasts that cheaper grinders may struggle with

you know what i mean haha

DrForinor

Cuprajake Yep, completely get you.

I’m not a huge fan of milky drinks, usually an Americano style with a little milk so the notes usually are present. As far as the beans go, for a while now I’ve much preferred lighter - medium roasts. All of that was taken into account before going for an expensive grinder 😅

DrForinor

Rob1 I’m not using a conical any more, only the flat. Will play around and see what I find 🙂