Hi.
I am struggling with with quality issues with my Lelit Elizabeth V3 (steam valve and some minor leaks from time to time, LCC bleaking) and thinking of upgrade/change.
I mostly dring darker roasts (grind with Mignon XL) with milk (oat) and once in a while something lighter (gind with JX-PRO). I like the coffee from Elizabeth and cannot argue that I like the small footprint and quick heatup time. I don’t like the all time leaking steam valve even with new valve rod (3rd already in 20 months). I sometimes use the steam preinfussion for lighter roasts but mostly use without (darker ones). I learnt that cannot rely on timed shots so use weight when pulling shot.
Will it be wise to go towards Bezzera Matrix MN (can get used one for reasonable money with Flow Control installed)? Will I get anything better in the cup besides better overall build quality (and logner heatup time, bigger footprint)? Let’s say that FC won’t be used that much. I will probably be using FC from time to time and other family members won’t at all.
Other options are Bezzera Aria Pid, ECM Mechanika Max. I don’t want anything from Lelit anymore (at least right now).

    kfiatos Other options are Bezzera Aria Pid, ECM Mechanika Max. I don’t want anything from Lelit anymore (at least right now).

    I have an ECM Mechanika Max, excellent machine and I think you will like it…quite economical on energy as well, even though it’s potentially always ready for steam if used in BC2 mode. Welcome to the forum.

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        DavecUK unfortunately Mechanika Max is the most expensive (and with wood accents even more). I was leaning towards it but I don’t know what to think after watching Lance’s video (temp stability)… It’s also the ugliest one (subjective). Will stock Mechanika change anything in the cup (I rarely do non milk drinks)?

          You won’t notice a difference in cup, esp in milk

          Would benefit more from a grinder upgrade.

          How ever should you wish to splash the can the bezzera are nice machines,

          Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            Cuprajake So sad :( That was my conclusion after visiting showroom with Ecm and Bezzera Top Duo… A lot of money and not a lot of gains… If getting more from machine change is hopeless then maybe I should fix my biggest problem with Elizabeth - the steam tap. Here is the German forum post with such a mod
            post. Machine would still be mediocre quality but at least steam tap would stop leaking all the time.
            I am really happy with Mignon XL. Is there any grinder that would be as small (with hopper and dosing) and gave me better result in the cup?

                kfiatos Machine would still be mediocre quality but at least steam tap would stop leaking all the time.

                I don’t follow this. I don’t understand why you think the Elizabeth is of mediocre quality. It definitely isn’t.

                I had my Elizabeth now for the third year. Nothing is broken, and everything is still working as new, including the steam tap. No leaks. But then again I use good water which I remineralise myself, never descaled the machine.

                I keep thinking of upgrading it. However, when I put down on paper the requirements I want: compact, easy maintenance, quick heat up time, good steam power, precise temp control… I don’t think there are many machines out there rivaling it.

                Having had other machines and having had coffee from many other machines, honestly, the Elizabeth is a machine way up there.

                If the problem you have is the steam tap, and you fox it and the problem comes back, either you are doing something you shouldn’t or whoever is fixing it is not replacing the right part.

                My two cents.

                But ultimately, you have to be happy with the machine you have.

                    MediumRoastSteam Maybe I got a lemon or maybe I am using steam tap wrong. The Idea of steam tap design that have to be treated with special care makes it a bad design. Maybe the fixes that have been done are wrong and whole steam tap assembly should have been replaced already (not my call as it’s still under warranty). I on the 3rd steam tap rod already. Every time I close it I worry if I will break it. Other than that my machine was troubled with leaks from 2 fittings and one seal (steam boiler). I use good water and descaled one as per my reseller requested.
                    After checking the marked I also discovered that there is no machine getting close with features per buck to Elizabeth.
                    I am torn now as I’d love to have rotary pump machine but cannot really justify the cost of replacing Elizabeth.
                    Maybe Bezzera Top De would come close? But then I would loose preinfusion as I cannot connect mains water :(

                        kfiatos - very strange. Don’t get me wrong, I know what you mean. You buy a coffee machine, you pay good money for it and it’s full of problems. You have it fixed and the problems come back. I hear you. Just so very unfortunate as the Elizabeth is, as you say, greet bang for the buck.

                          DavecUK is the Mechanika Max in bc2 mode at 92C able to steam at all? Does steaming after brewing always need button to be pushed to increase pressure?

                              kfiatos I can answer this as I’ve got the max and love it. ( btw it was well over my budget, I was shopping for the Elizabeth at the time but changed my mind once I saw the max in the flesh) I use the max in bc1 mode all the time and have never pressed the button, plenty of steam for me. I came from a Gaggia classic and very pleased I chose the max now.

                              I have a flat white around 3 times a day.

                                  pre infusion isnt the be all end all, most pump machines have a slow ramp anyways…

                                  Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                  kfiatos do you use tank or mains? Do you use preinfusion?

                                  Tank feed and have so called pre infusion on.

                                    I’m in similar situation like @kfiatos, going to upgrade from Bellezza Bellona DB to high-end HX (if we can call it as “upgrade”), after one and a half a year with my first espresso machine and getting familiar what I want, what I/wife drink, how DB works and so on, I would like to have a bit better materials used in machine in terms of overall quality. My must-have are as follows: 27cm max width, rotary pump, flow control, HX with PID (fresh water instead of helding water in a boiler). After researching in tons of forums/videos/reviews I’m in between Bezzera Aria PID and ECM Mechanika MAX. Taking into account a difference in price, I’m wondering whether double PID and BTC mode (MAX) do give me a really huge advantage comparing to the standard HX (Aria)? Doing 3-4 espresso/americano in a daily manner and milk coffees from time to time (mainly on the weekend).

                                      I was at one stage looking at the Bezzera because of the electronically heated group but I found since brexit, imho they weren’t interested in the uk market anymore.

                                        I’m aiming for the standard E61 group, don’t like how this electricity BZ group looks like.

                                        the oe bz group heats quicker than the e61, but you can add flow control to the e61

                                        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

                                        That’s also true, FC doesn’t fit to custom BZ group.

                                        Radecki82 HX with PID (fresh water instead of helding water in a boiler

                                        A slightly misconception. The Heat Exchanger is no different to a boiler - just that the water is heated passive via the main boiler. You’ll have 150ml/200ml of “old water” in there, of course, unless you flush 200ml or whatever before you start your coffee session and wait for the machine to rebound. In such a case, I would personally forget the fancy HX machines and just stick to a box standard HX machine: Simpler, and less to go wrong.

                                        Radecki82 Doing 3-4 espresso/americano in a daily manner

                                        I’m sure you know this already, but you use the tap water for the Americano, then that will come from a boiler anyway. You are better off using that water to warm the mugs, and have fresh water from the kettle for your drinks. 👍