Feeling pretty chuffed to have one of these, from the third batch of 24 each, arrive on my espresso island this morning. Featuring 60mm steel conical burrs, the C60 weighs in at a very impressive 1,005 grams and must surely be one of the best quality hand grinders on the market. First grind was 18 grams of medium/light beans which was super easy to grind in 25 seconds.The other premium hand grinders I have are either easy to grind and take closer to 45 seconds or stiffer to grind and closer to 30 seconds. The C60 seems to have achieved the best of both grind speed and ease of grinding. Whilst the C60 is a lot heavier than its precedessor the C40, it appears to be the same diameter, if not height. That's quite remarkable given the jump from 40mm to 60mm burrs. Haven't pulled a shot yet and fit fit Red Clix first, then I'll try it for both filter and espresso. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/3jACJsq.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/3jACJsq.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/lnXR19Q.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lnXR19Q.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=https://i.imgur.com/1vi1F3n.jpg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1vi1F3n.jpg[/IMG][/URL] First impressions video from Hoons Coffee featuring Josh from Alternative Brewing here in Australia https://youtu.be/-bFWEQn8_ik?si=GO5fzeVJR9wNh8FU

Update... I fitted the Red Clix axle and knob which descreases the grind size per click so that it's easier to dial in for espresso. (10 clicks on the original = 20 clicks with Red Clix fitted). I then dialled it in and got it into the sweet spot on grind #4. The adjustments resulted in the expected changes but the differences are quite significant even with just a single click adjustment. (I posted above that it was very easy to grind but that was a filter setting. It's definitely harder to grind at espresso setting but still around only 30 seconds which is pretty good, just a bit stiffer.) So can it grind for espresso? Yes. Grinding at 9 clicks with a medium/light (closer to light) bean means that there is plently of adjustment left for lighter beans.. As for flavor, let's just say it won't be dethroning my 1Zpresso J-Max S travel grinder any time soon. The latter produces a fuller bodied espresso with choc-like notes. The C60 is .... just not doing it for my tasted buds. A bit brighter I guess. I'll have to play a bit more and see if the discordant flavor is operator error or if its simply not an espresso orientated grinder. I'll try espresso again tomorrow with other beans and see how it goes. And I'll give it a whirl with filter as well.

> @"tompoland"#p54326 As for flavor, let’s just say it won’t be dethroning my 1Zpresso J-Max S travel grinder any time soon. that's nice to hear, especially the Barracuda C60 is like > 3x times more expensive

Thanks for sharing. Was hoping they'd improve the grinds adjustment mechanism at some point or at least move it to the top but can understand why they'd want to keep it consistent across their range. It's a little ridiculous to be paying this much and still have to buy an add on for espresso - but as you say maybe there are better espresso grinders for the job if that's what you're after.

Looks decent! Good to see them come up with a new grinder, they've been slow to innovate otherwise.

@"tompoland"#p54326 Tom, you made me look at 1Zpresso J-Max S and I came across two more versions:1Zpresso JX-Pro S, 1Zpresso JX-S. I am a bit confused as when reading they all come with 48 conical burrs. Do you know if these are for real and if yes, what are the differences and which version you would recommend (for the latter I believe you have already said it). Thank you! EDIT: I did some reading.JX-Pro has 12.5 microns step while J-Max has 8.8 microns. The question now is, can you use yours for pour over coffee as on their website they recommend, JX-Pro to cover pour overs to espresso?

@"John_Yossarian"#p54356 John can't say I'm a 1zpresso expert. However I have three and love two of them. For full flavoured espresso I have this one https://alternativebrewing.com.au/products/1zpresso-j-max-coffee-grinder?variant=43228253192391 And for filter I like this one https://alternativebrewing.com.au/products/1zpresso-k-ultra-coffee-grinder?variant=43228229435591 I also have the 1zpresso ZP6 for filter but it produces coffee so clear that for my unsophisticated taste buds tastes too much like water. Of all the hand grinders I've tried, the 1zpresso are hands down (sorry) my favourites for ease of adjustment (external and numerical dial guage) and ease of grind (smooth and fast).

Re the C60: better espresso this morning. Very bright. Thinking that part of my critical reaction on day one may have been partly down to the espresso being such a different style to what I'm used to. But the other part was that it was definitely consistently unbalanced in flavor. Not so much today. Maybe it just needed more seasoning. It's still only had approx 160g through it so I'm going to get that up to 300g before I try again. Not ready to try filter yet. Still keen to see if the espresso improves again tomorrow after more seasoning. Watch this space. It's possible, just maybe, that if the espresso continues to improve and the grinder lives up to its reputation for excellent filter coffee, that this may just be the first burr set that I've tried that (for my taste buds) excels at both espresso and filter. Unlikely, but I'm excited to see.

> @"tompoland"#p54357 I also have the 1zpresso ZP6 for filter but it produces coffee so clear that for my unsophisticated taste buds tastes too much like water. I thought the ZP6 used Etzinger burrs? If so, these are not wildly abnormal so I wonder why you're getting this result as this sounds more like you have the ZP6 set coarser? How are you ensuring that you are comparing grinders at equivalent grind settings for filter?

@"MWJB"#p54360 no idea which burrs the ZP6 uses sorry, I just assumed they were from 1zpresso's normal supplier. Certainly a lot of clarity though. And yes its entirely possible that it's down to operator error (too coarse). There is this from someone who knows a lot more about filter than a novice like me: https://youtu.be/dZSay02PWr0?si=whcWtbSl1yS-i9WG I've only used the 1zpresso ZP6 and K Ultra for filter (the others only for espresso so far). Relative grind size measured by sight and touch and the comparision was non-blind so not professing anything scientific there. It sounds like you suggesting a finer grind so, I'll give that a go at some point, thanks for the idea.

The burr he shows in the video appears to be an Etzinger, or a copy of it, These have been standard fitment in Baratza & OE Lido grinders for many years now (I have 3 grinders fitted with them) and none of these make normally extracted coffee taste 'like water'. Intensity of flavour won't be significantly different to other steel burr grinders with bearing support.

Comandante Baracuda C60

MWJB

FadedFrontiers Maybe it’s the adjustability? The Lido 2 & 3 aren’t recommended for espresso either, The Lido E & ET are and use a finer pitch adjustment thread.

FadedFrontiers

MWJB yeah I thought the same but it’s apparently 22 microns per click compared to say Comandante’s 30 (without redclix) - which is still very much doable for espresso if you have the patience

MWJB

FadedFrontiers I don’t know what you mean by 22, or 30 ‘microns per click’? What is changing by these amounts?

Do you know the pitch of the adjustment thread and how many clicks per full turn? ZP6 at 60 clicks * 22um would be a 1.3mm pitch thread, The Comandante’s 30um per click and 12 clicks per turn would be 0.36mm pitch thread if you are talking about vertical burr movement.

Tricky to see with my old eyes, but I seem to see 9 threads on the Comandante being around 5.7mm, or 63um per click? A standard M4 thread pitch is 0.7mm (58um per click), fine is 0.5mm (42um per click).

My Wilfa flat looks to have room for 60 clicks per turn (only 40 are marked) and that’s not considered an espresso grinder either.

FadedFrontiers

MWJB just going by 1zpresso’s own info, the ZP6 has the same body and therefore adjustability as some of their espresso range so the thread pitch is unlikely to be why it’s not capable of espresso:

There are 9 numbers/90 clicks in a single rotation; every clicks moves the burr by 0.022mm/22 microns. K-series (K-Pro / K-Plus / K-Max / ZP6 Special)

John_Yossarian

tompoland Hi Tom, thank you for your detailed response! The result: a 1Zpresso J-Max is on a pre-order 😃. It seems the demand is still high. In fact, my wife liked the look of the dark grey version so much that she almost “forced me against my will” 😂 to buy it.
I was looking at the J-Max (my first choice), Timemore C3, and the Commandante C40, (for C60 I would not even comment, almost a thousand EUROs). I could not justify the price point of the latter, no matter what.

tompoland

John_Yossarian think you’ll be really happy with the J-Max. Delish esrepesso and just a dream to grind with. I still can’t figure out how 1zpresso get the feeling of grinding so smooth.

C60 is just crazy price-wise but they are sold out everywhere. Mind you, with batch sizes of 24 there is defintely limited supply. I like the esrpresso from it now that it’s seasoned but I also like the J-Max espresso and its a fraction of the price. I’m really not sure why the espresso tasted so icky to start with and I wonder if there was some coating or residue on the burrs.

MattH

Eck - I did not realise the c60 cost so much.

John_Yossarian

tompoland I think the residue point is very valid.

tompoland

Think the C60 has hit peak espresso. It may continue to improve of course but if so its going to be small increments. Pretty happy with it for espresso. I’ll eventually venture into filter territory.

John_Yossarian

While waiting for my 1Zpresso J-Max to arrive I was informed that this will be discontinued as a new J-Ultra will be replacing it. The only difference that is clear so far has been the step goes down from 8.8 to 8.0 microns. I cannot fathom how 800 nm would change anything but this obviously is enough to give it a “healthy” 10% mark up in envisaged price.

tompoland

John_Yossarian so … if a micron is 1,000 of a millimetre then we’re talking about 10% of 0.008 of one millimetre. Or 0.0008 of a millimetre. Is that correct?

Espresso is weird.

John_Yossarian

tompoland You are spot on, I have made a mistake, I meant 800 nm, which is 0.8 microns, which is 0.0008 mm. Espresso is weird indeed😀 and yet great fun.

BTW I have come across some announcement by 1Zpresso with regard to some litigation by a German company (Commando?) for infringing some IP. As a result for a while 1Zpresso have stopped selling at Amazon, but this has been resolved quickly.

In a way this is re-assuring that 1Zpresso have done something right and they claim that their own IP is solid.
Anyway, I am not sure such incremental changes (from 8.8 down to 8.0 microns) make big bucks given that each new product is calling for a new campaign, i.e. expenses, and they do not sell it long enough to make a tangible profit. But this is beyond the point.

HarveyMushman

Must admit that C60 does look very good! I always thought the C40 was fantastically well made so I imagine the larger one is too.

I’ve considered buying another C40 for traveling so perhaps I’ll look at the 60.

MediumRoastSteam

I checked the price of this C60… it’s over £500?

John_Yossarian

MediumRoastSteam I came across EURO 870. I cannot see why but as long as it sells ……

tompoland

MediumRoastSteam it’s AU$930 here so probably around £500 but as scarce as hens teeth.

https://alternativebrewing.com.au/products/comandante-c60-baracuda-coffee-grinder

John_Yossarian

MediumRoastSteam Here are a couple of links:

https://www.coffeedesk.com/product/27264/Comandante-C60-Baracuda-Hand-Grinder-Brushed-Steel
https://www.bestcoffee.guide/products/comandante-c60-baracuda-coffee-grinder-brushed-steel

Still eye watering and yet it is sold out at quite a few places. I am sure it is a great grinder but I cannot justify spending that much on it.

tompoland

Agree it is a VERY expensive hand grinder.

For just $30 more than the cost of a C60, you can buy a 1zpresso J-Max S, a K-Ultra and a ZP6! I(here in Australia at least). And they are all stellar grinders. So yes, it’s very hard to justify the price.

But…

It’s not the prettiest looking grinder but mein Gott, the engineering and quality is superb and probably only matched (or exceed) by the Helor 106.

It is however the only grinder of any type I’ve ever owned or used where I can say that I REALLY enjoy both the espresso and filter from the one burr. Whilst that in itself may not justify the price, it’s a helluva achievement.

I’m still using the C60 for espresso each morning. Doubtless the honeymoon feeling will fade soon but I’m loving it still. No one who bites the (very pricey) bullet and buys one is going to wish they hadn’t. What was that old Summit Shirt slogan? “No one every regretted buying quality”.

HarveyMushman

Engineering to that level doesn’t come cheap, especially in Western Europe. I’m not saying it’s wholly justified at the price it is but I do think people neglect to consider how expensive precision engineering is on this scale.

I remember the C40 was fantastically well made down to the last detail so I’m sure this one is brilliant.

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