Well this…but not for the reasons you might think. [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/7rAH8qr.png] **My grr, is that with the guy being off his gourd and full of fertilizer….WHY does anyone still buy his machines?** They are super expensive considering the basic tech and actual build cost, because of the commercial model adopted (not built by him, but by Fracino, who also ship them),….while he spouts bile and nonsense from the other side of the planet. he didn't like LH review, which I thought was quite kind to the machine, went on a rant and later added me into it, especially as I don't trash Londinium threads on HB (their mods would never let me do that)…just nuts, absolutely nuts? I believe he added me into it, because the ACS Evo, Vostok and Nurri are seriously affecting his business. This negative effect is something he bought upon himself when one of his own associates at the time (who made a little bit of money from Londiniums), tried to destroy my online presence on another forum, which irked me a little. **My constructive way of dealing with that was not to rant, but push ACS to finally make the Evo and help them on that journey (for absolutely free). He has only one person to blame and it's not me…he should look to his good mate in the UK.** Especially as I was at the time about to leave the online coffee world in 2019 and just carry on quietly at home….but the final trolling made me reconsider…what a good job I did! I know I say always play the ball not the man….but in this case the man is not only the face of his company, but the owner, where your warranty resides and any help on his **closed forum**. God help any owners that get on the wrong side of him… *P.S. OK, In a way he is right I do get a benefit in kind, **the sheer pleasure of helping ACS (for free)** to produce a much **superior** machine, at a **fair price**. Of course I will get even more pleasure in future from now on.*

> @"Cuprajake"#p56118 hes also very protected on home barista and why i ended up leaving there as you cant speak freely, Same. I posted a bit there but witnessed some truly bizarre and what appeared to be overzealous ‘moderation’ (control) over the Mazzer Philos thread. Whatever happened to the First Amendment? What was odd is that some criticism goes somewhat unchecked, yet criticism of other things results in threads getting locked. I’m guessing it’s linked to sponsorship in some way. One of the beauties of being an independent forum!

The thing is, when Londinium first came to the market in 2012, their L1 was a good machine, compared to what was generally available. of course it had its own faults as I can testify. But, as time progressed more machines utilising the technology of the day came in to play. Londinium then realised that by following traditional espresso markets (meaning medium to medium dark beans) they were excluding themselves from what was becoming the ever so fashionable lighter roasted bean owner. The meant tweeks and the L1 model became the LR then the LR24 which finally through control of pre-infusion allowed lighter bean drinkers to come into the Londinium market. I believe Londinium cannot do very much else to the LR24, yet it is already very outdated. To pursue the line @"DavecUK"#1 started, Fracino are responsible for building and delivering the finished product. Londinium 'rent' factory production time. Londinium instruct Fracino they have sold a machine and a box bearing Londiniums name is sent out. The price that Fracino charge Londinium includes all their costs and profit. Londinium then add their profit margin. This makes no sense at all and is the reason that the price of an LR24, currently £3743.04 delivered in the UK. The technology in the LR24 is now outdated. The thing I find odd about the Vectis, is the usual Londinium method of bringing something new to the market is to give one to their influencers, especially in the UK who plug the heck out of it in return for a free machine. I noticed that the early demo of the Vectis went to Holland and not to the usual UK contact. He received or started to publicise his machine on July 20th. The chat lasted 7 days and no posts have been made since July 27th. Back in the bad old days of CFUK the Londinium fanboys had a strong presence on the forum and they mined the hell out of it. Then as we know, CFUK was sold and from that was born our own Coffeetime with around 1100 members and is a vibrant forum, and Talk Coffee who have removed their stats from the home page, presumably in embarrassment and have plenty of days when no posts are made at all. This means how do Londinium influence sales in the UK now and possibly explains the lack of chat in the UK of the little Londinium machine. With the much higher than expected sales price of £1541.67, to which you add VAT then delivery makes it £1869.12. That is a lot of money however you look at it. This means that the US market becomes very important for the simple reason that they do not pay VAT although the do pay lower local sales tax. It is a shame to see the very public meltdown that Reiss has had and is continuing to have. It is pathetic in the way he chooses to attack **individuals** making criticism very personal. I hope he grows up and in the process, grows a pair!

Oh I only just noticed this as well, another recent addition,, I obscured the customers name, so his real name isn't repeated by our site. [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/WtLzb3X.png] I wonder how his customer feels about his real name being splashed out all over the internet, after posting on a forum about issues with his Vectis, under a forum name. That surely breaches data protection and any shred of moral code a company should have!

> @"DavecUK"#p56117 I know I say always play the ball not the man Ad hominem attacks show the author in a very bad light. Moreover, it shows that their argument is weak so they have to trash the author's reputation. Way back, on another forum, there was a cabal who routinely trashed DaveC's reputation at every given opportunity - making the same snide untrue comments that Reiss parrotted on his blog above. They did their level best to have DaveC banned and were, briefly, successful until the forum owner saw sense lifted the ban and invited DaveC to become a moderator which enabled us to silence the cabal and turn around the forum. For Reiss to parrott those self same snide untrue comments is revealing. He has done himself no favours and does not come out of this at all well. If he were man enough, he would apologise to DaveC. But in the echo chamber that is Londinium, I don't think that will happen.

I'm thinking of splitting this off into a separate thread titled. "Why you might not want to buy a Londinium".

I split this off because it adulterates another thread and I thought it important enough to have it's own thread. It all kicked off when @"lancehedrick"#742 produced a review of the Londinium Vectis which Reiss clearly didn't like, although I thought it was very fair, in fact more than fair. **There was some comment on HB which started here and seemed to triggger Reiss Gunson**. https://www.home-barista.com/levers/user-experience-londinium-vectis-t88435-180.html#p956925 https://www.home-barista.com/levers/londinium-vectis-spring-lever-lance-hedrick-review-t90220.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylPm5erWnws&t=774s #### The owner of Londiniums response was to throw his toys out of the pram and post **[this](https://londiniumespresso.com/blog)**, which was amended a few times to eventually add me into it as well! I think **his behaviour is the antithesis of what we should expect from a company**, even if it is a one man band with his machines built and delivered by another company, he has no factory full of employees to worry about, so the only person being damaged by this is himself (apart from those customers who has fallen out with him). When they do they are often excommunicated from the private Londinium (support) forum and I have had people tell me they were informed their self repair parts warranty was now invalid. *I have in the past removed a few negative posts about the Londinium machines/Service before most people would have seen them. I don't think I can extend that courtesy to Reiss Gunson any longer. We are non commercial, have no advertisers and hence nothing to gain by protecting him any longer.*

Back in late 2012, I ordered a brand new L1 but the Luxe version. This came with glass side panels and a polished set of pipes and boiler that were covered in a see through material (like varnish but not varnish if you follow) to protect them. In those days there was a serious queue for machines as Fracino only had a small amount of line production per week. In early 2013, mine turned up and I could not have been happier. I had no experience with levers but loved the concept. After a couple of weeks use, it started to leak from every connection that carried water. What happened, was that the coated pipes and nuts could not be tightened enough at the factory, so they sent them out anyway. Reiss suggested wrapping the nuts with a cloth and trying to tighten. I was not happy with this solution and sent the machine back. It lay for a while and a compromise was reached. I would buy it back with the glass panels removed and normal steel ones fitted with all the nuts tightened. A few months later, an L1 Luxe appeared for sale on the Londinium blog. A cafe in Edinburgh was buying the first Londinium 2 group and Reiss agreed to help promote the sale of their Luxe. I emailed him and asked if he would transfer the remaining warranty. I thought if their machine had been used in a cafe without issue, then it would work for me. He said, 'absolutely' so I made arrangements with the guys and bought it. I found out later that they had not used it in the cafe as it was under construction and had barely been used at all. About a month later (my habit is to switch the machine on at 8 am and turn off around 4pm) I noticed that all the pipes that had been nice and shiny were turning pink. On closer inspection they were building up a deposit on them that you could scrape off in small pieces.I emailed Reiss between Christmas and the New Year to explain what had happened, for him to tell me the machine had no warranty. I pointed out that I had emailed him and asked for confirmation and he had said 'absolutely'. He then claimed he thought I was trying to help a friend buy the machine and had he known that it was for me he would not have agreed to honour the warranty. I could go on and on, but for some folks, this is a good example of Reiss turning nasty when it suits him, which contrasts with the 'legendary' customer service he offers some folks. https://youtube.com/shorts/3HATBEIwg_U

I think this thread is a mistake. My understanding is that this forum was created from a desire to move beyond the factionalism, name calling, toxicity and pettiness that existed elsewhere. Creating this thread doesn't seem aligned with that aim. You won't change this individuals behaviour. The way I see it, there are two option; you can either leave him to it, and have the schadenfreude of watching him destroy his reputation and business, or you can respond in kind to his toxicity. Don't take the bait.

Why you might not want to buy a Londinium

capuchin

tf23 Credit card chargeback time.

dfk41

capuchin A lot of the time to save on fees, Londinium offer a small discount to encourage you to use a bank transfer service……..I agree though, that seems a mad situation when you consider how much protection you actually loose for a discount of a couple of %!

Systemic

dfk41 a mad situation when you consider how much protection you actually loose for a discount of a couple of %!

and find yourself denied after sales support with no redress.

capuchin

dfk41 Yep, with even a whiff of dodginess to a company I’d always use a credit card.

dfk41

Systemic and find yourself denied after sales support with no redress

That can happen regardless matey!

tf23

This is why threads like these are important to not get buried. I felt ok doing a wire transfer because Londinium had been in business for a while and I had read mostly good things about them. If these horror stories were as easily accessible to a new customer as the rave reviews from the londinium cavalry I would have done things differently

dfk41

tf23 Your thoughts are spot on matey. The Londinium cabal ran a very slick operation. It was based on CFUK, another forum. They really ran a tight ship where any dissent or knocking of the product was immediately hidden or glossed over. I think this is the first time that there has been a thread were folks can openly discuss and share their experiences, both good and bad without fear of retribution. This is because @DavecUK runs a completely open forum with zero commercial interests allowed. Long may it continue!

JonWoo187

dfk41 Yep no doubt this forum is FAR more relaxed than most and enjoyable to participate in for that very reason. I plan to donate when I get the chance very soon… Gets annoying reading some of the interesting threads on H-B where companies are called out for very legit reasons and of course threads get removed/reworded and of course eventually locked. I will say that Dan finally did the right thing by dropping the hammer (somewhat) on ‘Frans’ for the constant mention/videos of the Vectis that seemed to be of no value except for damage control.

dfk41

JonWoo187

I will say that Dan finally did the right thing by dropping the hammer (somewhat) on ‘Frans’ for the constant mention/videos of the Vectis that seemed to be of no value except for damage control.

And that raises a very interesting point. If you starve a person, they die. Londinium now has no real presence, other than some vocal owners on HB, here, CFUK and what would be considered their home forum, Talk Coffee. This means very little discussion, very little beating of the corporate drum and all this filters away from burgeoning sales. How exactly are they going to survive the winter?

BrendaninBrooklyn

dfk41 Because as Barnum said “there’s one born every minute”

giampiero

First of all it seems to me that 2 adults having argumentation since long time ago and unable to ignore each others they use their online channel to claim their reasons.

But thanks god for such fun…Merry X’Mas 😂

DavecUK

giampiero First of all it seems to me that 2 adults having argumentation since long time ago and unable to ignore each others they use their online channel to claim their reasons.

Which two adults and how long ago? I ask because Reiss has had arguments with lots of people over many many years?

Reiss uses his online channel to rubbish anyone he “sees” as competition, or negatively impacting his business. Plus he promotes lies and fairy tales using his website. this means he probably has lots of people who don’t care for the way he operates. I know it usually creates 2 to create an argument…but Reiss is a complete exception to that rule.

from a personal perspective I am astounded he is still in business, with his attitude and vastly overpriced machines?

dfk41

Here is a link to the latest riveting video produced by FransG productions on behalf of Londinium. It is entitled How to flush the boilers on the Vectis.

A question springs to mind. On a brand new machine why would somebody wish to do this please? I do have a bad memory but I think I recall that the factory did not carry out this flush and sent the early machines out. You will be pleased to know, and I quote from the Londinium News blog that the Vectis has carried on the long Londinium tradition of possessing mythical qualities, “We have customers who are extremely upset with us that the boilers had stainless steel dust in them, but all of them think the espresso produced by the Vectis is exceptional.”

Here is the link to the repair video……..remember your popcorn

BrendaninBrooklyn

dfk41 I think Londinium and Weber should consider a merger.

John_Yossarian

dfk41 This is hilarious. I cannot fathom the whole idea behind its creation.

chlorox

dfk41

I would be extremely upset indeed if I found stainless steel dust in the boiler of any new machine I just bought and have been drinking coffee from!

dfk41

John_Yossarian It was created I believe, because several American owners received machines that had stainless steel particles in the boiler. Now, I am just repeating what I have seen so take what I say with a pinch of salt. I believe the factory line process demanded that the boilers be flushed out twice however, for some reason this did not happen and once flushed boilers were released onto the market. As the tom toms began to beat, the fault was identified. The legendary Londinium after sales could do nothing on this occasion so the Londinium film production crew was dusted down and what is really a self help video released. Lucky that they have the skills of FransG to call on, and as he was at pains to point out to me, he is not connected to Londinium in any way. For someone who claimed not to be connected to Londinium, I find it odd that on the Vectis if my maths is right, he has made 26 videos now. I would hate to see how many he produced if he was actually working with/for them!

DavecUK

dfk41 I assume he has a job that’s not connected to coffee and then a second whatever that doing stuff for Londinium.. he has certainly worked hard to promote the Vectis for the last 6 months. No one creates masses of separate separate Vectis topics on Home Barista, thinly veiled as maintenance and espresso shots. they would put them all in one topic…..unless of course they were trying to create a buzz?

dfk41

DavecUK I asked him a simple question. Did he work for Londinium? Did he answer that……not a cat in hells chance!

dfk41

We all know his history with them. He and another always receive the latest itineration of machines then plug away thumping the drum. Just look at his YouTube video history. It goes back a long way and I stopped counting in the 90’s! Of course he does not work for Londinium, it is just a hobby!

dfk41

chlorox You and several others, so it seems! It is just such a production line faux pas. I suppose for those US customers who paid a higher price and bought through a retail business would have some protection, but for those who bought direct then the only option is to watch the video and organise it yourself. Now, I am not sure how many Londinium customers own a 38mm socket and T Bar or can borrow them. If it happened to me I would have to ask for help straight away. I am useless with spanners and know that I would do more harm than good!

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