I’ve narrowed it down to these two machines which I know, are almost identical apart from some components and casing.
Is the ECM worth £450 more? The looks (subjective, but for me) are worth a couple of hundred quid extra but is the rest worth it?
Does anyone have experience of these machines - good or bad? Anything they particularly love or hate or niggles?
Finally, anyone have a discount code for Bella Barista? 🙏🏻
Looks like one is ECM and the other Profitec versions of the same machine. Similar to the Sinchronika and Peo-700. Same thing, just different finishes. ECM brand is the more premium of the group, hence the higher price tag.
Ps: don’t have experience with either machine.
Thanks! Yes, I think they’re even the same business group.
It feels like choosing between a Skoda, Volkswagen or Audi. Pay the premium for nicer touch points and looks with similar functionality, guaranteed good quality built on the same principles.
Yes - I know the differences in the auto industry are bigger but I can’t let myself think that when I pull alongside an RS3 in my Fabia!
The Profitec brand was started by Michael Hauks father, and ECM started by Michael himself…they are both part of the same company run by Michael. There is a different look, but very similar construction and components with ECM being the more premium brand.
In truth they are both great quality machines and you would probably be happy with either…Although it might be worth adding the ECM Mechanica Max to your list.. I have been using one for around a year and it’s a very innovative HX that gives you close to dual boiler functionality in a compact energy saving package (vs a Dual Boiler or conventional HX)
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the reply and clarification. The Max would be ideal to be honest. It is just slim enough for my space, looks super, has the “joystick” steam and hot water, better temperature control and a rotary pump.
The problem (as always!) is the price. The Slim is a stretch and the Max is a stretch too far.
Unless you’re looking to part ways with yours for a reasonable price…..? 🤞🏻
JesmondJester Unless you’re looking to part ways with yours for a reasonable price…..? 🤞🏻
I’ll think about it…honestly though, if you don’t get the max and save a bit now…you would regret it later!
Agree with Dave on this one. Speaking from experience, you are better off buying the machine you want, even though this might mean saving up for a little longer - than compromising on something. Unless you are happy with all the guess work that an HX machine requires in the form of cooling flushes and recovering timings, I’d certainly go for the Max if ECM is what floats your boat.
You just need to take a look at the For Sale section of how much second hand machines are going for these days, and, unfortunately, it is not what it used to be any longer. Just think carefully and make sure you make the right choice when spending your money.
I know, I know. It is a constant dilemma and I appreciate your advice and thinking about it.
I can make a quick decision and am realistic.
Cheers.
I would buy second-hand from someone I trusted or had good communication. Often that isn’t the case though and as you say, trying to find the machine you want at the right time is a tough one.
I’ll be sure to keep an eye out though!
I bought a 400 from Bella Barista about 18 months ago and have been very happy with it, my choice of machines was quite limited due to the space and height under cupboards as I didn’t want to be pulling it out all the time. On unpacking the warming tray fell apart but a new one was couriered down by BB, apart from that it has been fine. I had the cover off after 6 months, all totally dry, no sign of leakage and well put together. On other forums I’ve come across a drip tray coming apart but again replaced by BB and I’ve seen no other issues reported, they appear to be solid and well built.
This machine suits me but I don’t have a great palate, I really don’t get any of the ‘notes’ in coffee, I like it or don’t like it. I don’t think I could tell if my coffee was brewed a few degrees either way but if you can then this machine might not be right for you. My wife bought me a screw in thermometer which has given me quite an insight into the temperature and I was surprised just how much flushing was needed to get it down to where it was supposedly meant to be. So, if you do have a great palate then Dave’s ECM Mechanica Max seems to provide a great deal more control over temperature.
Hi Alan,
That is really helpful, thank you. I watched the Lance Hendrick review video of the Max and was almost put off by his dismissal of temperature control on anything other than dual boilers because of the flushing etc. required. I usually like his almost overly analytical reviews but then he goes down a track and I just wish he’d stop being quite up his own backside.
It did make me think of the thermometer in the group head though. Do you think it is worth it? Has it changed your enjoyment or reduced coffee to just “hitting the numbers”?
I struggle to get the different notes in espresso but then I am using a Baby Gaggia that is tough to be consistent with. When using my V60, I can tell the difference much more easily.
I am sure the upgrade in machine will help, whether that is the 400, Slim or Max.
I’ve bought a ticket for the Euromillions tomorrow so the Max might be in reach sooner rather than later!
I must admit after putting it in on Christmas Day then leaving the machine on for many many hours I was a bit surprised to see a temperature of 95.8, I certainly wondered if there was something wrong. However, after a few days I decided it is working as it should. I think it could be like making pancakes, you always throw the first one.
I like dark roasts, the gauge shows about 91.8 on the lowest setting, no idea if this is true but I’ve read it loses a bit travelling to the puck in which case then it would be about the specified 90 but as the water flows if it hasn’t been flushed then it rises depending how long it’s been on. What I did find was that making a few coffees it becomes consistent so it’s a question of knowing your machine. As I really can’t tell any great difference unless it’s been on a long time I just pull the shot, look at the gauge and think that’s interesting. So long as I get a coffee I think tastes good that’s all I want, for me it’s a coffee and that’s a different outlook to those who have a passion.
The drawbacks of the 400 are the small space between group and drip tray, a bottomless is essential if you want to use scales, the supplied tamper is weedy.
I matched mine with a Niche Zero, that arrived a few days before the 400 and just grinding some beans as it came out the box improved my Sage Barista Express experience immeasurably.
Good to read - thanks. Sounds like it has been more of an interesting addition and a help than an information overload and frustration.
I have the Zero too. I am also slightly concerned about the lack of space between the group as I intend to use scales.
Maybe another tick for the Slim or the Max? I guess I’ll be looking closely at the pictures to see if there is a great difference between the three of them. I’d probably end up buying a bottomless in the end.
Plus a knockbox.
A few years ago, for reasons I won’t bore you with, I gave up cycling. A hobby where you can spend endless amounts of time and cash on a quest for lighter/stronger/“better” components, frames and clothing. I am so pleased to have found a hobby to replace it that has similarly infinite options to upgrade and improve. First-world problems!
JesmondJester dismissal of temperature control on anything other than dual boilers because of the flushing etc. required. I usually like his almost overly analytical reviews but then he goes down a track and I just wish he’d stop being quite up his own backside.
No flushing required on the Max, perhaps he didn’t fully understand the machine?
SurreyAlan
I’ve been an owner of a Pro 400 for a few months now and agree with all your comments. No problems with it at all and I’m finding it makes very good consistent coffee.
I set mine to the auto pre-infusion setting which I find also improves shot consistency.
Maybe not!
I bought the Max. Gulp.
Now I have to have another damn water discussion as I am not putting my hard tap water in it. 🤣
Still, a few days until that happens.
JesmondJester Buy it right and buy it once! A lot of us use the Osmio Zero which is an RO system
https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/zip-portable-reverse-osmosis-system.html
I thought our water up here was reasonable! I have a water test kit if that helps
My average total hardness is 46, max is 56.
Calcium Carbonate is 116, max of 142
I don’t think these are super bad but I get a lot of scaling on both my kettles and dread to think what that would do inside this machine.
It arrives tomorrow so I am considering just buying a Brita or something bottled from a store for the first few weeks until I get a long-term solution.
JesmondJester I don’t think these are super bad but I get a lot of scaling on both my kettles and dread to think what that would do inside this machine.
You will get a surprising amount of problems as 90% of issues are cause by bad water.
