Lelit Elizabeth, temp overshoot / jump after switching on

Brainbox

Good day!

After switching on my Lelit Elizabeth, boiler temperature, set to display the actual value, slowly increases to the set value, 94. Some time after it did reach that, displayed temperature almost instantly jumps to about 105 after which it slowly returns to 94. It is doing this with the default and also with the ‘Dave’ settings.

Does anyone know what is going on?

Thanks and cheers, Bart.

MediumRoastSteam

Brainbox - could you please video the event? This would give us better clues to figure things out. As you describe it… it seems very weird.

DavecUK

Brainbox It’s the fast warmup routine

DavecUK

Brainbox displayed temperature almost instantly jumps to about 105 after which it slowly returns to 94. It is doing this with the default and also with the ‘Dave’ settings.

The key word here is “instantly”, if this is not exaggeration, then there is a fault. As @MediumRoastSteam describes the exact situation. I was hoping the OP was just incorrectly describing the behaviour on a brand new machine. reading more closely I see there is 0 context..

MediumRoastSteam

Brainbox The ‘jump’ in temperature that is suggested by the display

Do you mean from 94C to 119C? If so, yes, there’s nothing wrong.

What threw me was the fact you said in your first post:

Brainbox slowly increases to the set value, 94. Some time after it did reach that, displayed temperature almost instantly jumps to about 105 after which it slowly returns to 94.

If you had said “120” or “119” - as per video - we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And once again, Dave was spot on on his diagnostics.

MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK - If it’s the fast warm up routine, on mine at least it goes up to 120C, not 105C! And aside from a blinking display at the set temperature, it would not show anything else until it reaches the peak of 120C. So, as it is described, it’s very strange. Unless of course the description is not accurate or is missing other important information. :-)

I think a video of the “phenomenon” would be valuable here.

Brainbox

I will make a video and post it soon, but need to properly cool-down the machine.

I did try to simulate a cool-down by drawing a lot of water from the brew boiler just before shutting down and re-starting, but that does not produce an overshoot. It shows an increasing actual temperature (59 upwards) though right from the start.

DavecUK

Brainbox

How old is machine?
was the 59 from a cold start in the morning, or after the forced cooldown/restart?

Brainbox

Machine is one month old and forced cooldown/restart. Version 5.07.

Did a normal cooldown and start from 46 degrees just now, but still no overshoot. Tomorrow morning …

MediumRoastSteam

Brainbox Machine is one month old and forced cooldown/restart. Version 5.07.

Looks like they have revised the software.

Brainbox

I would like to present my new video production “The gurgling of the espresso snatchers”.

Although I would advise viewing the entire, highly exiting video, the highlights of the plot are these.

at about 4:30 the boiler reaches the setpoint of 94, after which further temperature increase is capped by just showing the setpoint value.
at about 9:30 the display shows a short ‘OK’, flashing stops and the display starts showing the real actual value of 119.

What I guess is happening is that the developers decided to try to hide the overshoot during the warming-up procedure by capping the display temp to the set value. But after warming-up at the transition to the normal temperature control, the display switches to the actual temperature, giving the casual viewer the illusion of an abrupt temperature jump with the perception of possible sensor failure.

This is done without Dave’s mod, except for the setting to show the actual temperature.

And my apologies for the inaccurate description before, the quietness of Easter Monday is a good moment to sit beside your coffee machine to contemplate life in all possible detail … :)

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0c9-of-hZSJDShYrG7b9tVRRg

MediumRoastSteam

I’ll watch in a second. But next time, please use youtube, make it unlisted and link it here. Downloading a full video it’s not something people usually do in 2024…. :-)

MediumRoastSteam

MediumRoastSteam - Thank you for the video. As suspected, your initial description was wildly inaccurate. :-) - there’s no jump from 94 to 105.

Watching the video:

This is the warm up procedure, it’s absolutely normal. The machine warms up to the set point of 94C, hangs in there for a little and then starts climbing slowly to 120C - This is when the display shows the OK message. At that point, the heating element is turned off and the machine is left to cool down naturally to the set point of 94. This is exactly how it works. If you read Dave’s review and the advanced settings, it describes that process, and also tells you that you can use the “+” key to see the real temperature of the brew boiler, and you press it again and you see the temperature of the steam boiler. Do that at around 8 minutes in your video and you will see that the temperature is climbing.

HOWEVER

I can see that towards the end of the video, your machine just hangs around 104C. This is not what happens on my machine. It goes down a little quicker- - but I might just be getting the wrong idea here.

Could you please:

Make from when the machine displays “OK” until it actually reaches the setpoint of 94C? How long does that take? (should take around 10 to 14 minutes).
Could you please video (or put in here) the values you keyed in the advanced settings for the PID configuration?

Brainbox

As far as I’m concerned, we don’t need a follow-up.

The ‘jump’ in temperature that is suggested by the display is not caused by a sensor or other failure. That was my major concern.
I stopped the video at about 104 degrees, but it nicely comes down to 94 in 10 to 15 minutes.
Settings are all default except the display setting for actual value. But I will go back to Dave’s settings now this is cleared.
I did miss the description in the review regarding this particular behaviour.

Thanks for all the help!

Cheers, Bart.

Brainbox

MediumRoastSteam

Yes, true, ‘jump in temperature’ instead of a vaguely remembered reading …

Thanks! 🙂