Dave has posted a thread on energy prices! How do we save some precious pounds, considering we are going to be battered with another 51% hike in April and may be more in going forward? Insulation - Would certainly consider this Check the windows and doors to see if they are good Energy alternatives - heavy investment. Is it worth it, leaving aside embracing greens? The electricity is already 100% green Solar panels - probably the cheapest alternative Biomass - no view Heat pump - too expensive and massive energy loss en route home Wind turbine These affect all of us. Some will opine we will be happy to keep the current status in our life time. Fair enough! 😊 What do you guys think? Thx Thx

Green energy

LMSC

Dave has posted a thread on energy prices!

How do we save some precious pounds, considering we are going to be battered with another 51% hike in April and may be more in going forward?

Insulation - Would certainly consider this
Check the windows and doors to see if they are good
Energy alternatives - heavy investment. Is it worth it, leaving aside embracing greens? The electricity is already 100% green

Solar panels - probably the cheapest alternative

Biomass - no view

Heat pump - too expensive and massive energy loss en route home

Wind turbine

These affect all of us. Some will opine we will be happy to keep the current status in our life time. Fair enough! 😊

What do you guys think? Thx

Thx

Pompeyexile

Well like many we since living here we have had extra loft insulation, cavity wall insulation and double galzing put in. Last year our conservatory was about 20 years old and so we had new frames windows and a solid roof put on it. The difference that made was unbelievable. Before during the winter it was freezing even with a big radiator and air conditioning unit that blew out warm air. In the summer it was unbearably hot and the air conditioner had to be on all the time so you can imagine how much leccy that used. Since putting on the proper roof we’ve had the Big wall mounted air conditioner take out and it is perfect in both the winter (warm and cosey) and in the summer comfortable to sit in.

Our neighbours just had an Air source heat pump fitted about four months ago. First they had to have wall insulation pumped in (1982 built house didn’t have them) and then two week later the air source heat pump fitted which not including the price of the insulation cost about 12k. Will be interesting to see what they think of it by the end of this winter both efficiency and cost wise.

My new combi I had two years ago cost me about 2k fitted. Now I know it’s not eco friendly, but I simply do not have the sort of money needed to fit either air source heat pumps or solar.

I think ALL new houses should be fitted with solar, maybe air source heat pumps or an eco alternative for heating and a tank in the loft to catch rain water to flush the loos. But no government will pass that as law.

LMSC

Pompeyexile Very useful insights indeed. Many thanks. The heat pump costs do not surprise me at all. That cost looks conservative to me. It will be useful if you could come back with a view after the winter.

Ours is 1980 built. I am not sure if the walls have had the cavity wall insulted. I do see signs of it on external walls, though. The previous owner said he had put 200 mm loft insulation. For all of us, probably it’s worth taking a look to see what needs to be done to keep the energy bills down.

As far as the eco alternatives are concerned, it’s about striking a balance — running costs, efficiency, and investment!

Difficult period ahead for all of us for sure. 😌

DavecUK

Pompeyexile Our neighbours just had an Air source heat pump fitted about four months ago. First they had to have wall insulation pumped in (1982 built house didn’t have them) and then two week later the air source heat pump fitted which not including the price of the insulation cost about 12k. Will be interesting to see what they think of it by the end of this winter both efficiency and cost wise.

The problem is they will have made it into the renweable heat incentive…RFHI which means their electricity is well subsidised as they get a payout for every kW of heat they generate. e.g. below shows the rate for a 3 bedroom house. If they use 17,000kWh per year, they get £1844 back, the RHI is capped at 20,000 kwH

So by their examples a 3 bed semi will be £3230 of electric heat generated, but they will pay you 1844 for the kW you generated, making the bill only £1386 (if you generated it at a 1:1 cop , these are the current rates, people who got in years ago get much higher rates".

So far this sounds great 8p per unit, even better when the COP is about 3 ish, as the payment is based around what you generate, not what you consume to generate it. So it actually works our at 8/3 pence per unit….or 2.66p per unit true cost.

This is absolutely fantastico, because gas it about 3p per unit. It’s also why when they got a grant for the system and a few years ago were paying virtually nothing, some people even made money, they are all bloody evangelists.

Now reality needs to kick in, The RHI stops in April 22!!!!!

To heat tht 3 bed semi will take 17000kWhr for the year, with a COP of 3 average, that’s 5667 units of electricity required at 19p per unit current prices this comes to £1077 to heat your house, vs £510 for gas.

So those who got in a few years ago are super enthusiastic, the truth is that for the rest of us, it will cost considerably more and I have not included water heating costs, which will be far higher, or the fact that you have to have the systems on all the time in case…whereas gas can be reduced if it warms up.

It doesn’t include the very high installation costs for most homes (much higher than quoted and iot certainly doesn’t include the CAP, for larger or less efficient homes using 20,000kW per year!!!

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/renewable-heat-incentive/article/renewable-heat-incentive-rhi/rhi-costs-and-earnings-auJtQ4P32RWW

dfk41

Are solar panels really a cost option these days? I have not kept up with things, but presumably now you have to pay the full installation costs yourself (unless you ‘rent’ out your roof space) then get the benefit of free electricity whilst it is generating with ny excess being pumped back into the system. With the current cost of electricity being so high, does it make sense buying in to help alive a temporary situation?

Cuprajake

my electric is 100% renewable but its doubled so not sre how that works haha

dfk41

Wow, drawn in by the headline quote I applied for further information. The advertised cost of £3650 has grown to £11,995…….

LMSC

dfk41 Is that for the solar panel?

LMSC

DavecUK If they use 17,000kWh per year, they get £1844 back, the RHI is capped at 20,000 kwH

So, if the 4 or 5 beds consume > 20K, there are no incentives / subsidies, are they ?

DavecUK it will cost considerably more and I have not included water heating costs

DavecUK It doesn’t include the very high installation costs for most homes

Welcome to rip-off Britain! 😂

Giphy - scared season 1 GIF by The White Princess

dfk41

It most certainly is

hornbyben

dfk41 that quote does include a battery backup and inverter though,which are probably more expensive than the panels themselves.

Don’t forget the obvious turn the thermostat down and wear a jumper option too.

LMSC

dfk41 Sounds expensive but expected, is it not ? We need to pencil-in at least £15K, IMO, for the cheapest option. I have a colleague; may be, I will give a call. We haven’t spoken for a long time.

DavecUK

LMSC So, if the 4 or 5 beds consume > 20K, there are no incentives / subsidies, are they ?

Not on anything above 20k Kwh…but of course after April, the RHI is finished for new installations!!!

LMSC

DavecUK Sweet news! 🤣

Doram

Slightly off topic: is a foam reflector behind radiators doing anything? Given that it is so easy to do, I have fitted it to all radiators on external walls. But my walls are cavity insulated, so couldn’t find any conclusive information if this is actually effective or not. What do you think?

LMSC

Doram I have none behind my radiators. 😊

DavecUK

Doram Slightly off topic: is a foam reflector behind radiators doing anything? Given that it is so easy to do, I have fitted it to all radiators on external walls. But my walls are cavity insulated, so couldn’t find any conclusive information if this is actually effective or not. What do you think?

I guess every little helps….some of the cheaper ideas can save quite a bit of heat.

Curtain across front door, affixed close to lintel
Deal with any and all draughts
Foil behind rad…can’t hurt, I guess
Supplmentary insulation to any cold spots. I have a bay window (false bay) where the wood goes outwards with no brickwork underneath, hence the very large lower window area/shelf, gets very cold, even though it’s been insulated. I’ve been thinking of supplementary insulation above…e.g. white insulated tabletop protector or something.

Ultimately though, no matter how much insulation you have, a house will loose heat, all my cavities are insulated and it still gets cold. Sometimes I wonder who these people are they interview, or look at, to come up with the average energy bill for the year…..

DavecUK

hornbyben Don’t forget the obvious turn the thermostat down and wear a jumper option too.

And Star jumps…wasn’t that what the Twat at the head of Ovo wrote out to all his customers.

Cuprajake

Id say the big thing is, which hit me with work

I converted every bulb to led. 6 ft strip lights we have 24 of those, then the office is 4 false ceiling units, this cost a fortune, brought my consumption right down, so they just raised energy prices.

I think no matter how efficient we are they will just put prices up to keep profits

I read bg made 172mil so far this yr, and thats 100mil more than the same point as last yr, oh and they have 114,000 less contracts…

LMSC

Cuprajake It’s shocking and sad equally, is it not? The big companies continue to perform well. It’s all the smaller, local and daily wage folks are the worst hit by the current crises.

We had spent > 1K to replace all the bulbs to LEDs and paid > 2K as labour. Still, our utility bill has gone up by 60% in 2 years.

DavecUK

Cuprajake I think no matter how efficient we are they will just put prices up to keep profits

I read bg made 172mil so far this yr, and thats 100mil more than the same point as last yr, oh and they have 114,000 less contracts…

Worse still they avoid tax, each year the big energy companies borrow a years worth of money from their company, all of it at the beginning of the year (not quarterly) based in the Bahamas or similar at a high interest rate and then pay themselves back. Thus avoiding tax.