Hi all, I've been lurking forums and finally decided to get a lever machine, and narrowed it down to between the Nurri Leva and the ACS Vostok/Evo Leva 2. The cost for both is rather similar where i'm from, but the ACS direct will end up 20% higher than the Nurri with Zebrano. I'm comfortable with doing my own repairs and modifications. Currently i'm trying to compare the Nurri vs ACS Differences mapped are: 1. Pressure changes can be done for Nurri while pulling a shot (not sure about ACS) 2. ACS has more auto features than the Nurri (manual shot termination and pre-infusion) - no preference 3. ACS has better steel (corrosion resistance) 4. Nurri needs a physical electrical cutoff installed for the boiler at set temperature (bi-metal piece at the boiler) - can be retrofitted at low cost. 5. ACS has 3 single PIDs while Nurri has one PID with 3 outputs/inputs - I'm not sure about the pros/cons of this in terms of accuracy/reliability Please correct me if i'm wrong on the above. Now the big question is, do I go for the ACS or the Nurri? Both seem make great coffees, but preference is to get the machine that is more reliable, and won't break down as often. Looks are equally attractive (or unattractive :D) to me, so that's totally not a concern, but if safety and reliability of the ACS is much higher, that would sway my purchase decision, i know the ACS has a lever safety, but as long as i engage the pump on the Nurri before pulling the lever, i should be safe right? Very sorry, I couldn't find an answer to this dilemma, after reading through all sorts of forums and pages, even German ones.

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 Greetings! Could you expand a bit on the pricing please? The 2 machines are sold through different sales models. One sells directly meaning there is no 'dealer' profit (or service) to pay for and the other sells through established dealer networks. Your statement that the ACS direct is 20% dearer leaves me scratching my head a little!

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 Hi, regarding pricing, where are you located please. I have similar thoughts to @"dfk41"#4 . You probably guessed but i can only recommend ACS . I only watched reviews and videos of the Nurri but can say comparing to my real life ACS Evo1 and 2 (and a Vesuvius pressure profiler for that matter) i am not left wanting a Nurri!! It would be a step backwards in my opinion. As you touched on, materials and build of the ACS are great The ability to adjust pre infusion pressure when necessary and the ability to end the shot either manually or after a set pressure or time is reached is great. You can call me idle, i do not mind!!

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 I'm located in Asia, where interestingly the Nurri is cheaper from a distributor, direct from ACS with tax is more expensive by 20 percent. Weird but true. Nurri where I'm from is 4.5k Euros including tax and shipping. I wanted to have a feel of the Nurri but the dealer mentioned they only have unopened boxes and no display units. It's a reputable dealer so I'm not getting scammed. ACS base would be 4.3k euros including shipping, but tax would be an additional 20 percent and I need to collect it from the airport. So overall roughly 20 percent higher.

Reputable dealers would have a machine for you to try out no? Would be tempted for Acs really, I still shine for the Vostok, home use or shop.

@"Jony"#p71939 They are one of the main suppliers for all coffee machines here. Not that I'm defending them, I haven't met a single coffee machine dealer in my country that's halfway decent for service. Had dealers refuse to fix a new Marzocco until my friend escalated to LM headquarters. Another dealer I called because my grinder had an alignment issue, they just pushed it down beyond zero, claimed it was fixed and wanted to charge me for fixing it. Another delivered a VA E1 Prima with a leg bent at 45 degrees like it's totally normal.

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71940 I would check manufacture dates and exactly what the nurri had fitted. Id also want to see it running. As a dealer of that kind if kit, they should be testing anyway prior to handing over to the retail customer. If not that tells you a story already and what a battle you will have should it go faulty. I would email Maria at ACS sales@mevsrl.net and ask if they are happy to ship to you and if they have any known issues shipping to your area, and what timescale there would be to ship parts etc if ever required. Im in the UK and parts from ACS arrive in 1 to 4 days which is great. I wish you the best of luck.

@"AlbertLZJ"#p71923 Please be aware that this forum is predominantly made up of acs owners so u r liable to get a much higher percentage of responses from acs owners. I am one of the very few nurri owners who are active on this forum and have owned my L type SA Lever for almost 2 years now. Prior to that, I owned a traditional dipper style lever machine for a long time and so I am familiar with how much more powerful in capabilities and in ease of use hybrid levers are compared to traditional levers, good though ghe latter are. The nurri and acs machines have similar abilities and both manufacturers are currently the only ones making hybrid levers that are available for sale. (The LM LEVA X and the kvdw spiritello are what i like to call hyper levers as they are machines in an entirely different class cost wise being much more expensive and requiring considerably more counter space. ) However the biggest difference between the nurri and the acs machines and which matter the most from a user and owner perspective IMHO is their very different user experiences. The nurri focuses on giving a hands on interface and experience and is minimalistic in appearance and controls. This means that apart from the pid, everything is controlled via the lever itself, 2 paddles and a knob that controls the preinfusion pressure. There are no timer or automation features at all and no touchscreens - there are just the pid and 2 analogue manometer dials. What this means is that if u want to be in c ontrol throughout the shot and extraction process, then the nurri is for you because it gives a lot of direct or fllexibility and control. However if u have to do a lot of catering and entertain large groups of people frequently for parties then the acs machines have timers with the ability to automatically cut off the shot at pre set pressure levels etc. How I like to describe analogically to describe this difference is that the nurri is to the acs machines like apple smartphones arr to Android smartphones or like apple laptops are to Microsoft os laptops. This analogy extends to their different aesthetic design appearance also. On your queries:- "1. Pressure changes can be done for Nurri while pulling a shot (not sure about ACS)" Yes correct for the nurri. "2. ACS has more auto features than the Nurri (manual shot termination and pre-infusion) - no preference" Yes that is correct but this is by design as I have mentioned above. '3. ACS has better steel (corrosion resistance)" I don't know what are the steels used currently in the newest iterations of the nurri leva. But I don't think this is a live factor especially for home machines that dont see the wear and tear commercial machines experience in cafes. This is particularly for the painted ones. Whatever the case I have never come across any owner complaining of rust issues in a nurri. "4. Nurri needs a physical electrical cutoff installed for the boiler at set temperature (bi-metal piece at the boiler) - can be retrofitted at low cost." I don't understand what you r referring to. I am not aware of anything that the nurri needs along those lines. "5. ACS has 3 single PIDs while Nurri has one PID with 3 outputs/inputs - I’m not sure about the pros/cons of this in terms of accuracy/reliability" It makes no difference operationally. The nurri pid has 3 independent channels that perform independently of each other.

You could email Nurri themselves for confirmation of the ASian dealer network. I am still surprised at your answer though. If you buy direct from ACS, they do not charge you the middle man profits, and in exchange you get it cheaper but have to deal direct with any issues that might arise. Through a dealer network, they make say 35% Let us say the base price of the units is both 3000 and ignore any import taxes as it is the same for both. Shipping will also be similar. ACS you pay 3000 Nurri, the dealer adds his mark up which includes warranty works of 35% making the 3000 cost to him, 4050. That is why to me, your numbers seem a little strange. i fully understand the need not to overpay as I would not want to either! AS to which machine is the better. How long is a piece of string? On a forum, all you will be told is the opinion of the various owners. I might be wrong but I can think of possibly 2 Nurri owners on here. I can think of a lot more ACS owners but that is partly to be expected. The question I would ask the existing ACS owners, is knowing what you know, would you do a straight swop for a Nurri?

depends how hands on you are, with acs it breaks you're inside the machine fixing it, with nurri i presume the dealer back up would sort it out, re the nurri just check on the wood handles as a user bought one and got god awful plastic things, also depending what machine you are coming from, be aware these are hand built machines, can and do go wrong, fit and finish isnt allways 100% after that pick the one you like the look of as they will both produce outstanding coffee, after all its the same group.

Wasn't that user promised wood handles once it arrives? The only worry I have is the finishing of the wood panels. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/aQK0i7S.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/aQK0i7S.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

Deciding Between Hybrid Levers

AlbertLZJ

After all the inputs, I’ve actually decided to get the ACS instead of Nurri, and now just deciding between Vostok and Leva 2 (have space for either), figuring out logistics, and the customizations. Last but not least is to get something nice for the wife before buying it so I don’t get murdered.

The main differences that were critical to me were

Build quality - frame of the ACS looks to be better built, with better materials and think it was @Adrianmsmith that said the internal build was better than the ECM Synchronika, that really swayed the decision, knowing the build quality of the Synchronika.
Shield separating electronics and boilers in case of leakage, and I saw the Nurri has vents facing the boiler.
Support from people here, Maria and ACS, yes Nurri has dealers but over here the support from dealers is terrible, so dealer support or not makes no difference to me.
Ability to add lever safety and flush lever. Also what looks like continuous improvement and development.

Things that actually worked against the ACS but I can live with (personal choices)

Nurri’s ability to bypass lever and pull a shot. Important for wifey but I’m still keeping the LMLM so she could use that.
That drip tray design of the Vostok.
Personally prefer the more mechanical operation of the Nurri, but I can live with it as the build quality is better on the ACS.

Thanks to all of you for helping me with all the inputs. It is really appreciated.

Adrianmsmith

AlbertLZJ Nurri’s ability to bypass lever and pull a shot. Important for wifey but I’m still keeping the LMLM so she could use that.

Hey, glad you are near to a decision.

Could you expand on the above “issue” .

Im not sure what you mean so can’t comment if the evo2 can do the same. It is very versatile.

Let us see what you need it to do please ….

Jony

Well when I had to choose I had no choice was a 2G only Vostok . Love the machine, few people said the Evo is better how I do not know .But repeatable shot after shot. If I had the go again maybe another Vostok .

Adrianmsmith

Jony

I dont think evo2 / vostok is better, or worse. ☕

I think it is all down to aesthetics and what available space you have mainly.

As for filling tanks i still dont get how anyone can ever live with that on any machine 🤭😜

Would be like filling the washing machine with buckets😘 or as my wife puts it, im not washing up in the sink when theres a dishwasher there!! (And im not referring to me with a dish cloth either!!)

I know were never going to agree on this subject!!

Plumb it and forget it!! (Change the cartridge annually though!!)

Amberale

Jony

Hey Jony.
What is the boiler set up on your two group?
I thought that the ⅔/4 group had two much bigger boilers (4/7 litres) whereas the 1 group has the same boilers as the EVO and Vesuvius (.8/1.5)
That would obviously give you a slightly longer warm up but a bit more stability?

Cuprajake

Vostok is easier to fill with water, the fill on the Evo isn’t the cleanest idea.

Unless you plan to plumb

AlbertLZJ

Adrianmsmith

The wifey makes coffee too, but I imagine she would find all the lever pulling and all rather difficult. So she gets to make her coffee using the Linea Mini (LMLM) which I intend to keep, future projects involving gear pump mods and so on plan.

chlorox

@AlbertLZJ
i certsinly disagree with your impression that nurri build quality is in any way lacking vs acs. (For instance, i was informed by antonio that the nurri leva has been made in wholly in 304 stainless steel for quite a long time now. Both boilers are in 316 ss.)

However you have no need to justify to us here your decisions - you are entitled to buy whatever machine you want and to employ whatever justification you want since it’s your money after all. Enjoy your machine when you receive it and use it in good health!

dfk41

@DavecUK will have the definitive answer but…..the Vostok range was commercial having 1,2,3 and 4 groups in an environment where size was no issue. There had long been a desire for a one group ‘Vostok’. that would fit a standard bench. Dave had a brainwave and Paolo built him Frankensteins baby out of very old parts using an Vesuvius Evo case. This was built purely to see if it could be done. He received the machine and documented his testing of it. The design improvements then were incorporated and the first machines dispatched in June 2021.

I do not think there is much of a difference between what a Vostok has feature wise and what an Evo Leva can have. The main difference is size of the case and looks. As @Cuprajake said, the water fill on the EVo is slightly awkward but once you build a routine it becomes a routine. I use a long necked plastic watering can. I am sure oithers will chip in

DavecUK

dfk41 As @Cuprajake said, the water fill on the EVo is slightly awkward but once you build a routine it becomes a routine. I use a long necked plastic watering can. I am sure oithers will chip in

Imagine the Vostok under a cupboard…filling the Evo is easier because of the side hatch. I use a plastic oil can with a long flexible hose…very easy.

The internal layout of the EVo 2, wiring compartmentalisation of wet, hot and electrical areas is also great. Plus there are plenty of access points underneath and all 3 sides. It’s a very nicely laid out machine. Super quality inside as well, with much of the stainless 3mm thick. Plus drain taps for brew and service boilers.

The underside with the access panel removed

Acessories box

And yes, I love it.

Amberale

dfk41

Hey Dave.
I’m pretty sure there was no 1group Vostok built until DaveC came up with the idea of crossing a Vesuvius with a LSM group.

AlbertLZJ

DavecUK

If you had no space constraints, and the coffee machine is placed somewhere without cupboards above, which would you choose between Vostok and Evo2 on a pure engineering reliability and safety standpoint.

Also the Vostok is much easier to refill right?

And I just found out that there is an ACS Vostok 1G in my country, the small matter is that it’s 8 hours drive away.

Amberale

Adrianmsmith

Henry Ford said “You can have a model T in any colour you want, so long as it is black.”
We have an Australian Lowline Bull called Henry Ford for exactly that reason.
I have had a Vostok for a bit over a year.
I have sold a couple of other levers during that time because I no longer use them.

I use the auto finish feature every day, I use the flush lever after every shot.

I think the Vostok, EVO and Nurri all make great coffee and which to buy is more of a personal preference than what coffee it will produce.
Only time will tell if there is a difference in build quality, longevity and reliability.

dfk41

Amberale Thats right, because the proposed case was too large for most European kitchen benches.

Adrianmsmith

AlbertLZJ

Hey, Just do it if it’s genuine. 😜😎

I drive that distance to site regularly . 😘

My wife initially wouldn’t use the evo but when she actually tried it she now uses it.

It really isnt difficult. The temptation was to initially pull down rather than away. We’ve had a laugh about it at least!!

To me They’re both super easy to fill. Wouldn’t have one in the house without it bein plumbed in to the regulated filtered mains. Regulator not strictly required but its a no brainer to just use one anyway .

DavecUK

AlbertLZJ which would you choose between Vostok and Evo2 on a pure engineering reliability and safety standpoint.

Not sure…both are nice.

Jony

I had bought the pump as a extra, with water drums underneath. Would do same again. If I was to get one.

AlbertLZJ

Rigidity or flex comparing between the 2?

DavecUK

AlbertLZJ Rigidity or flex comparing between the 2?

probably the Evo2 is more rigid now, as there is quite a bit more thick steel and extra bracing behind the group….plus 3mm thick stainless rails underneath the body. In reality though neither noticeably flex.

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