We see a whole load of woffle, both on this forum and many others regarding coffee machines. AT the end of the day, you do your research then buy a machine because it is either within budget or it ticks your individual boxes. But what is the differentials? All coffee machines have boilers of some sort to produce hot water and steam, both needed in the coffee making process. Some will heat up faster than others, but so what? A lot of machines have timers and if they do not you can use a wifi plug. Some have saturated groups…..so what? Most home users do not leave their machines on all day and if they do, they are usually not cafes, serving 2 to 4 drinks a day. Does a saturated group make any difference to the taste of a shot. Some folks buy badges and therefore will only buy a badge, regardless. So, what are the things that are important to making a shot. Presuming that your shot preparation is good and that you have a grinder that can do your machine justice, what else really matters. The ability to control group and water temperature is nice and can affect the taste. The ability to adjust bar pressure is nice. But, what is the single most important thing…….the coffee. How many folks have equipment costing thousands of £'s, then spend £20 a kilo on commodity beans (yes, I certainly do but I have wasted hundreds on fancy sounding beans and had decent grinders and just accept my tastebuds are inferior). There is nothing wrong with buying what you fancy. If you could do a blind tasting of a coffee made on several top end prosumer machines it would take a very clever man to be able to identify the machines. So the thought that one machine makes a better cup than another…..does it? The exception to this though, is the 58mm puck versus the 53/4 mm puck. The latter produces a much narrower, deeper puck and no, I am not a scientist but depth means the water travels further through the coffee. The original Italian machines were all this size, until someone invented the E61……….

I’m aware people probably gloss over my posts because I’ve got a machine a lot of people assume are purchased solely for the name… one thing to note on this is firstly, I purchased my first coffee machine 20 years ago, a Gaggia Classic and have had maybe 5 or more machines since. The badge isn’t important to me. Also, 99% of people in my family and friends have no idea who LM is, and really the only people who even know I have one are people on this forum! I’ve no desire to impress people. On the saturated group…(or whatever the actual tech is called because it’s not officially saturated on the Mini/Micra) I personally think it’s a better group that’s more forgiving. I say this having had it side by side with my previous E61 machine. On a perfect day, with perfect prep and perfect beans, you would get an equally good cup. But what makes say a Lelit Bianca better than a Rancilio Silvia? The temperature stability… in turn, for me, what makes a Linea Mini ‘better’ than an E61? The temperature stability. I’ve lived with and owned both, side by side. If I didn’t think the LM was great, I’d have sold it. I’m fortunate enough that if I thought a £10k machine would be better for me, I’d buy one. It’s not money stopping me from upgrading, it’s that the machine is perfect for me. And I’ve learned that from 20 years of experimenting and various machines. But the key is that’s my take. Other people might love their Streitman lever, their profiling E61, their bells and whistles auto-profiler… it’s whatever works best for you. I think the issue with the LM is the price. If it was £2k, a lot more people would have them and love them. But because of their price, and the connotations of buying expensive things, people write them off as overpriced snake oil. I don’t know why people are surprised… practically m every decent coffee shop on the planet has a LM machine. There’s a premium for the name, certainly, but it doesn’t make it any less of a great machine.

> @"HarveyMushman"#p73427 But what makes say a Lelit Bianca better than a Rancilio Silvia? It does not, other than beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For the record, I was not having a pop at you. I simply mentioned LM (having owned a GS3) since to many, they are held in high esteem. It is the same in every sector you care to mention. Cars…..one person buys an electric, the next a diesel…..choice is a good thing

> @"dfk41"#p73428 For the record, I was not having a pop at you Sorry yes I didn't think that but see how it looked likeI thought so! I just wish more people could try a Linea Mini for a while in the home and I do wish it was cheaper and more accessible as I really do think it's a great all-round machine for people who don't want profiling. It's hard to explain but I'm seemingly able to throw any badly prepared puck in it and get a decent result out which I haven't been able to do before. I'm not one of these people who meticulously prep the puck and I'm often in a rush between meetings to make a couple of coffees. I'd love the AV functionality from the GS3 though.

> @"HarveyMushman"#p73427 I’m aware people probably gloss over my posts because I’ve got a machine a lot of people assume are purchased solely for the name 100% totally vain ;)

@"Cuprajake"#p73430 Actually me [URL=https://i.imgur.com/QzQsp6H.jpeg][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/QzQsp6H.jpeg[/IMG][/URL]

I'd love a LM but I could never justify the cost (also the WiFi connectivity puts me off as I like the idea of a dumb machine). But the build quality and relative simplicity are a real draw for me. A lot of people like tech and the ability to fiddle so would inevitably go for something different. I also like the idea of a Decent but I can't imagine them still going strong in 20 years time. If we were all able to properly test all the options available to us then we'd probably buy very differently but it's not possible. We have to purchase based on specifications, reviews and inevitably our own personal bias will come in to play(whether logical or not…).

@"Dusk"#p73432 Indeed. Another reason I think the ‘original’ version is preferable. I’ve never used the wifi functionality and the boilers on mine are controlled with physical controls. Bella Barista have showroom but I think as with everything you need to live with something for a while before you can decide it’s right for you. Trying to make a ££££ purchase based on internet browsing or a 10 minute trial isn’t ideal.

@"Dusk"#244 thats a great idea for a poll - how long have you owned your machine, i doubt many would have long term with out upgraditus

I went to bella barista a few tears ago . They were showing how good the lmlm was. I just kept thinking how cramped it looked and how id manage ti use it with my Denby mugs under that group . They said the rockets were particularly pretty and people who turn up in full biking gear usually prefer them.🫣 At that time i purchased the Synchronika anniversary edition. Loved it for a while prior to moving on to the ACS's I can't see me changing again (this year), but id have a nurri or Decent if ACS were no longer available. LMLM would be way down my particular list. I do like the enthusiasm of LMLM owners on here and Reddit but cant quite see the excitement . Luckily theres a lot of choice as we are not all the same 🤪☕

@"Cuprajake"#p73435 ive had mine 33 hours longer than yove had yours; Approximately 🥰

Coffee machine differentials

Adrianmsmith

Jason1wood

@dfk41

Ask David to loan you his Evo whilst he practices his filter!!

That may change your mind 🥰🤭☕🤪

Jason1wood

Adrianmsmith I’ve had an invite to pop over which I’ll be taking him up on. Never even thought about a lever machine as out my budget and more importantly, way above my expertise haha

Adrianmsmith

Jason1wood

actually, thats where everyone is wrong.

No expertise required

Wish id had one years ago.

Very easy and repeatable .

Very little to learn.

They are vastly under hyped.

And no, i dont work for ACS!!

Jason1wood

Adrianmsmith I’m willing to learn, lend me a couple of grand……🤣🤣🤣

Going to have a Google of a lever now. I’m hopeless at decision making, my head gets turned very easily. I’m a complete coffee ‘slut’ 🤣🤣🤣

chlorox

Adrianmsmith

All spring levers are very easy to use. And it is a lot more interesting to pull and release a lever than push a button to turn on the 9 bar pump.

dfk41

Jason1wood Is there a servicing issue with LM machines. I know the chap I sold my GS3 to who is a coffee lever expert tried to get a service kit a couple of years ago to be told they did not supply them and it had to be bought through and fitted by an LM service agent. Obviously I am not talking about group seals but it is a thought Jason. I still maintain that if you lined up 4 coffees made identically on 4 different machines, that you would not have a scooby doo……the same applies to 9.9 out of every 10 mere mortals. If you buy a Porsche, be prepared for Porsche garage servicing costs

Jason1wood

dfk41 hmmm food for thought there. Spoke to an engineer yesterday from Gabriele when I picked my machine up, he mentioned a rocket machine.

Honestly my head is bamboozled atm. 🤣

HarveyMushman

dfk41 Is there a servicing issue with LM machines. I know the chap I sold my GS3 to who is a coffee lever expert tried to get a service kit a couple of years ago to be told they did not supply them and it had to be bought through and fitted by an LM service agent

I can’t speak for the guy you know but in my experience it’s absolutely the opposite. Parts as small as washers are easily available from third-party’s like Espresso Solutions and often easy to identify as numbered, exploded parts diagrams are readily available online or from LM.

When I contacted a couple of local commercial LM techs to do my annual service they were more than happy. I ended up doing it myself since its basically visual checks and seals but I think a member on here had his Micra serviced by a tech recently. Parts cost me £9.

@Jason1wood I’m not saying LM machines are superior or right for you but service, reliability and parts is 100% the least of your worries. I’d be more concerned as to whether it ticks the right boxes and that a lever or profiling machine would maybe be more useful.

I’ve made my love of the Linea Mini clear but it’s very very much a no frills machine.

dfk41

Jason1wood Rocket are crap Jason. They used to be the go to machines a dozen years ago but they have been taken over and faded from the scene. When you ask for advice, you tend to be told to buy whatever the machine the author has, after all, they convinced themselves. Narrow it down to features, ie dual boiler, heater group etc etc. Then you will find not as many machines are available as you think. A well looked after machine can be good value as most machines use standard parts. Set a budget, get your money available and stick to the plan!

Jason1wood

HarveyMushman to be honest, a no frills machine ticks all my boxes and would actually like my partner to be able to use it also, so she can have coffee when I’m not in. Don’t want it to be a ‘me only’ hobby.

I’m at the point where I can get the prep right to get decent espresso, but mainly drink milk based drinks so all these other features would be wasted on me.

chlorox

Jason1wood

You should consider instead a spring lever, really any well made spring lever to me is better than any pump machine. It already gives you the best pressure profile consistently every time and it is so much nicer to use and look at than the pump machine. Of course if u have more exacting demands on setting specific temperatures and pressures, then a hybrid lever like the acs or the nurri L type levers would be perfect.

HarveyMushman

Very similar situation to us. I had a Bianca, amazing and lovely looking machine but just never really bothered with the profiling after a week or two. The maintenance of an E61 (whilst not exactly taxing…) got a bit old too.

Jason1wood

Yeah something simple with quality build is what I’m after.

Could at a stretch get the Micra in Black Friday deal, but ideally after a Mini (used) but that would have to be in the same ballpark price. Not in a situation to spend £££s, so having to pick wisely

Jason1wood

chlorox don’t think my budget would stretch to a lever, also my partner needs to be able to use the machine.

Adrianmsmith

chlorox Of course if u have more exacting demands on setting specific temperatures and pressures, then a hybrid lever like the acs or the nu

chlorox

Totally agree (until the N word!!! ) and i wish someone had convinced me of that 10 years ago!!

I thought the synchronika was the best thing since sliced bread (and then i realised sliced bread was far inferior to a loaf from the local bakery!) and was perfect in the anniversary anthracite, but soon got fed up of maintenance and that’s one thing i actually enjoy!

Changing valve plugs and stripping, cleaning and greasing the group gets too tedious and boring and becomes an unnecessary chore.

Working on the evo is much more pleasurable as its things i want to do or try, not have to do to keep it working.

My wife uses it, easily, but i did get WTF is that when i originally purchased the evo 1. Im not sure how to pull a bad shot!!

She didnt like when i sold the sage dual boiler but doesn’t mind now!!

She soon realised when you look at it instead of stare at it its actually very simple.

@dfk41 should attest for how little cleaning etc is actually necessary! (Sorry David 🤭) I believe its been mentioned previously!!

Ive broached the Decent conversation a few times, most recently this week , as they have some cometic seconds at great prices but i only get 2 words.

NO.

UGLY

🤭

So thats that. Next on the list has to be a Vostik!! (Sorry for the hedricken slip)

Not because it would be better coffee, just to see how it looks in real life .

The synchronika definitely did not make better coffee than the sage, just steamed milk quicker.

Im sure the evo does make better coffee but never did a side by side comparison.

But its definately easier to use and more pleasure to use so thats a win anyway.

Jason1wood

dfk41 yeah great advice. I’m too easily swayed haha

I find that not many items come up for sale here compared to the older place. Just waiting for HMRC to release MY money then I’ll be ready to pull the trigger 👌

chlorox

Adrianmsmith

LOL now now if I can say acs without breaking out in hives, you can say NURRI L TYPE SA Leva too 😄

Speaking of vostik I was always wondering why hedrick seems to have a problem with pronouncing it correctly thre. Maybe he has a problem with russian pronunciation 🤔

Adrianmsmith

chlorox LOL now now if I can say acs without breaking out in hives, you can say NURRI L TYPE SA Leva too 😄

I will keep trying to say that sentance, cant quite get all the words out just yet 🤪🤭

I have to admit the Nurri video with that German guy and the review by Tom is what ultimately made me buy the Evo 😎🤐

If Bella Barista, the so called uk distributors, had been actually interested in selling one i may have purchased one.

Luckily BB couldn’t be bothered and Antonio wasnt interested in a direct sale so i didnt. the rest is history 🥰

I had the V1 and now the v2

All joking aside the V2 gives the best of all worlds and caters for how you want to use it from fully auto dump / shot end to fully traditional / manual shot end, with a couple of hybrid semi auto modes in between.

If the v2 evo had not been released the nurri could have had some appeal but nurri needs a v2 now to give it some attraction or advantage….

HarveyMushman

I reckon I’d have an Olympia if I wanted to mess with a lever. Nice looking little machines. The others (including the Leva X) are just so flippin enormous.

Whilst you normally work out where to put your coffee machine in your kitchen, with a lever you need to work out where to put your kitchen around your coffee machine 🤣.

dfk41

HarveyMushman A Cremina really does not break any ground in the current climate. A bit like owning an MG in the Seventies when if you saw another MG owner you flashed your lights and waved……why! Just remember, whether you think you can or whether you think you cannot, you are probably right anyway

chlorox

HarveyMushman

I have never had to do anything special to accommodate my levers except drilling a hole in the counter top fir the water filter below but that’s necessayr for any sort of machine to be connected to the water supply. Even when i has a smaller kitchen, I managed to put my massive izzo on the kitchen counter let alone the considerably smaller nurri. The vertical height of the lever handle isn’t a problem because if u need to open the cabinet doors above the machine, u just pull the lever downwards to make way for the doors opening. Or if there is a seam beteeen the 2 doors above the machine, u position the machine so that the leve handle sits exactly in that seam so both doors can open to the right and left of the lever handle without being impeded.

HarveyMushman

dfk41 A Cremina really does not break any ground in the current climate.

I’ve heard they tip over too. I guess they call it ‘character’.

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