Righty ho! The best time to write this is after setting it up and before you have used it. The story of how it arrived here is a pleasant one. Being the not so sought after conical, there was no waiting list as such. Kafatek seem to release all the grinder variants at the same time and I ordered and only had a few weeks to wait. Payment was an initial non refundable deposit of $1000 with the balance of $1400 plus shipping of $180 due as a final payment. I chose to pay by credit card so there were some additional transaction fees to pay, then ultimately UK duties. The total cost of the grinder as payment to Denis, was £2191.81. Yesterday before it was delivered UPS sent a Duties invoice of £271.13 which I was pleasantly surprised at. That gives a grand total of £2462.94.
I ordered the 71mm Shuriken burr model. This caused me a bit of a dilemma. One of the facts why it took me nearly 3 years to push the button, was I have always been a big fan of the 83mm Mazzer conicals, but never owned one. All the press around the Shuriken burrs seems very positive but unfortunately how many people ever really criticise the kit they are promoting, owners included?
So, the grinder turned up on the day it was scheduled for, arriving at 4.30. I am not the fittest at the moment so did unbox it but went no further. So, this morning I decided to get to grips. Denis very kindly included a packet of beans, so since these were the beans that the factory use to test the grinders before dispatch, it made sense to use them. They include a test report stating grind settings, amount in, amount out so I stuck with those parameters and prepared the shot. Now having been a Niche user for years and years, that is what I am going to compare it against. But you will be disappointed if I do not say one is better than the other. The Kafatek is undoubtedly superbly engineered, but it lacks the slight refinement that Niche spoil you with. If you want to buy a Porsche, do you buy a normal road model with all the luxuries like leather seats, radios, cigarette lighter and the like, or do you buy the lightweight road/racer version where you forego the little luxuries but gain on performance. That is very much the choice you make when buying a Kafatek.
Therefore there is no point in listing its shortcomings. I am not a YouTuber so I have no audience to pander to. I do not have to invent faux problems to get people talking. So, what happened? I said I weighed out 17 gms of the supplied bean. They recommend a spray (and supply a nice bottle) of water which I did. I turned the speed down to 150 rpm. The reason for this is my model no longer has the magnetic chute. As long as your rpm is set below 200 then when grinding stops there is a purge button that speeds up to 200 for as long as you press it. You then power off and there is a thwacker to use. I gave it two or three thwacks but nowt came out. The tube the grind drops down is silicone or similar and that must help with retained grinds. I measured in and out and each time got slightly more out than I had put in, so I expect that to change. I have not yet adjusted the pf clamps to take my smaller pf so am quite happy grinding into the supplied cup. I have not timed the grind but 17 gms is quite fast. Once the cup is inverted a quick stir with the needle thing supplied, I used the Bravo tamper and pulled the shot. It ran too slowly but by the third attempt I was close enough to my normal standards to add some water and drink. The conclusion was not to use the rest of the supplied beans! At this stage I had to go out!
On my return, I was knackered having been taken shopping. Within 2 minutes of me sitting down the cleaning team arrived which meant making 3 espressos. I opened a new bag of Chocolate Point by Black Cat (not a bean that I am familiar with). It took me two practice runs, then I pulled the shots. Now all the girls take sugar but in darker roasted beans that often can help. They seemed quite happy with what I served, but there again, the usually are!
What did I learn? I think that I will stop spraying with water as I do not believe that alone seems to be the reason behind a lack of static. Kafatek have obviously been working hard at this. I am too tired to play anymore today but tomorrow I intend to refine the workflow further and get the shots spot on. Then when that is done I will set my Niche Zero up with the same bean and do some highly unscientific testing. I know tase is subjective, so I have deliberately chose blends and not SO. I have some SO to use next though. What I am hoping for, is to enjoy the shot the Zero produces but be more impressed wit the shot the Monolith produces! I a sorry that this is so long. Happy to answer any questions. I attach 3 photos and a cack handed attampt to video the 3rd setting up shot with the beans that were supplied. I hope that it is all self evident. I know the camera lens will make my Evo look manky….it is! I had surgery last week and being 67 and not recovering as fast as I would hoe, but soon it will receive a spit and polish and away we go!
The supplied beans
The grinds inverted into the pf
After a quick stir
Tamping by Bravo
Initial thoughts on Kafatek Monolith
If that video is of you running the shot, do you run a Chinese Laundry too? Do you wear a hearing aid and was it turned off? :)
Pompeyexile Yes, Yes, No! The mic makes it sound a lot worse!
Was there someone close by with a jack hammer ?
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on a complete blind tasting with the Zero.
Two shots prepared, eyes shut then handed them to taste.
Waitforme Understand, but I would need a visitor for that…….if any of the usual suspects are up for it
Congratulations ! Hope you have real fun with this. I’m very looking forward to hearing your thoughts vs Niche Zero when you get that far.
- Edited
BrendaninBrooklyn well, as Kafatek is about 4 times more expensive compared to Niche, I would honestly expect a LOT better…but then we enter in the field of the finished returns…what is realistically to expect from such an expensive grinder? I am curious to hear your thoughts
I would not expect major differences, at least with dark and medium roasts. Niche is basal, but the base line is very high. However, we shall hear actual comparison results soon enough.
- Edited
BrendaninBrooklyn I am lost, so then why paying 4 times more if you don’t get a lot of improvement? It has to be some logical reason…I mean in general not referring to @dfk41 in particular…
This is really just a shootout between the Mazzer Kony burrs and the Shuriken burrs since the rest of the grinder does not really add or take away a great deal to the shot. Of course the Monolith has variable speed maxing at 200 rpm but for one with such a narrow band to play with I am not expecting speed to make a great deal of difference. At the moment I am using 150 rpm and unless something jumps out at me, will stick with that. I will be using med to med dark beans which are cannon fodder to conicals. Another couple of days and I will probably feel confident in comparing. I have a spare kilo of rubbish which I really ought to season the burrs with. Luckily the M is pretty quiet!
JimmyP What’s your reasons for spending so much on a grinder? 🤔
Cos I can afford one?
- Edited
profesor_historia , I would honestly expect a LOT better…
You really need to define better…. You really need to be able to understand “better”. It comes in many forms not just final taste and thats not something we all agree which is best anyway . Best raste to me is possibly worst taste to you.
So whatever David decides that’s David’s decision for David alone. Doesn’t matter in the slightest if anyone or everyone agrees .
You cannot dismiss the machining and engineering , it all adds to the cost. You cannot judge everything on someone’s perceived taste preferences, thats not where all the cost goes .
Consistency and long life count for a lot in my view.
Plenty of videos online with factory visits etc explain a lot to those actually interested . It is not difficult to see where the price point comes from.
I do not regret buying the flat max 2.
That does not mean coffee from the key, philos, duo or zero are bad
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
JimmyP Ok, you would like a serious answer Jimmy? I have admired the Kafatek project for quite a long time, maybe 2 ½ years. But I rarely invest in new technology because as is often the case the updates come thick and fast and if you buy a Mark One and a year later the Mark Two comes along you cannot help but feel a bit annoyed. That said, I bought one of the very first Evo Leva’s from the first batch to be released. This was because of our host’s input and if anyone does not know, Dave likes to make sure that when a product (look at Niche) goes to market, it is the finished item. The Evo has further involved and quite quickly, but the improvements are new features and do not make any difference to the cup.
At Xmas I was talking to someone from the old cfuk forum and I asked him why he was selling his trusty Compak K10 Fresh after 10 or so years service and buying an EG One. His reply was his best friend had recently died and it made him realise that you cannot take it with you.
I thought about this and agreed. I am retired, owe no one any money, have a reasonable income and some savings. I am at peace with the world. If after 3 months use I decide that for me, the Kafatek is no better than the Zero I will sell it, lose some money and tell myself all that I have done is rent one for 3 months.
That sir, is the lie of the land.
Adrianmsmith of course is David decision, mine is just genuine curiosity. However, following your logic and if everything is soooo subjective, at the end I can also say that maybe there is no difference in the cup between a 2K grinder and my Super Jolly which costs me 120€. There must be a difference no?? Not only placebo…I am confused.
What means better? Well, the taste basically, a very expensive grinder should be able to extract from a coffee things which a much cheaper one cannot, otherwise…..
I know all this is very subjective, personal and intimate but I was genuinely curious, of course I am not criticizing anyone but I think we can speak openly here no?
dfk41 hope this is not the only reason….
Adrianmsmith btw, I owned several Mazzer Major, a Kony, several Super Jolly, Compak E8 and E10, K10 etc and they ALL offered my consistency and would have outlived me had I not sold them ;).
But yes, I get your point, all this is very subjective and personal.
- Edited
profesor_historia There must be a difference no?? Not only placebo…I am confused
Yes there is a difference.
I always compare and stick with the one i prefer.
But that doesn’t mean if i sell on the one i least prefer that im passing on sub standard equipment .
The point im making is how do you measure 4 x better for 4 x the price. You cannot quantify all of the aspects contributing to the price.
If you prefer it and realise some of the price is down to the build and quality of the parts used and the product itself then 4 x the price is ok!. it is good to stay.
There are bad grinders .
The bad grinders i have owned are sage smart grinder pro and df83 v2 but i have seen some people love them . Obviously i cant agree!! Inconsistent is the kindest observation.
In isolation all other grinders i have and have owned give me, in the cup, good coffee. When i compare i appreciate the subtle differences .
My craig lyn hg-1 prime probably gives the same coffee as the key with maybe less fines, which i prefer, but slso theres something pleasing about using it which makes it “different”
Im using the 200 and 197 burrs in the philos and now trying the SSP burrs i have on loan from @Raja123 .
The ssp certainly have more drag as i have had to adjust the damping ring 2 notched to stop it drifting coarser whilst grinding (stepless mode).
All 3 burrs give nice coffee but i think i am still preferring the 200. Again this does not make the ssp and 197 bad, and any in isolation are great. I just have a feeling towards preferring the 200’s.
Its more difficult to compare without 3 philos bodies.
Taste memory is very lossy and the brain easily confused decisions !
Hifi is much easier to justify price of some components. Are 4 × 5m £3k speaker cables worth more to wire my speakers than the £80 ones i currently have. 100 percent definitely not!
Ade Smith. ACS Evo Leva v2. Kafatek Flat max 2, ssw 2024. Mazzer Philos, Craig Lyn HG-1 prime., WW key mk1.
"Hifi is much easier to justify price of some components. Are 4 × 5m £3k speaker cables worth more to wire my speakers than the £80 ones i currently have. 100 percent definitely not!
--that’s only because you are not using audiophile cable hangers ;-)
'