My Heat pump Story -Davec

Cuprajake

dont forget there are grants in place as its being really pushed, i know that they have stuff in place that makes heat pumps more beneficial to be sold, what i cant get over is the massive push to being all electric when its generally more expensive than gas, that and the fact if they want to phase gas out, why are they digging up and re sleeving all the gas lines ready for this new hybrid gas,

i cant find the vid, but a guy with solar already installed, broke just about even with his energy costs, the install was octopus and it wasnt the nicest

sorry to sound very negative but it just dont think they are all they are cracked up to be, and having friends in the trade, who install them they actually say the same.

smallblueplanet

DavecUK 10 rads being changed for larger heat emitters including a new larger heat pump towel rail in the main bathroom

What is your new hp towel rad? We’ve an ordinary rad in our bathroom when we had our Daikin 8kw fitted by Octopus and it’s not big enough and unfortunately the bathroom is in the north corner of the house is is a bit too cool at times.

smallblueplanet

dfk41 Personally, I cannot see the benefit of converting over to a single source of heat for the house. I understand ratios and efficiency but I intensely dislike the idea of not being able to pop the heating on an hour before bed and having to have something running 24/7 whenever it is slightly cold.

Do you misunderstand the different way heat pumps work? The radiators are sized to emit a certain amount of heat for each room, you choose what temperature you want the rooms to be at. So the heat pump is on all the time the rooms aren’t at the temperature you want, you don’t need to ‘pop on the heating for an hour’ although you certainly can, it just won’t be as efficient.

We had our old oil boiler, and all our radiators, changed out by Octopus (using the BUS grant) for an 8kw Daikin heat pump and it’s very good. I wish we had solar but that’s too pricey.

dfk41

smallblueplanet I understand the mechanics perfectly smb. @DavecUK and I have spoken many many times over the years about the practicalities of owning them and therefore there was no one more surprised than me to find that he had ‘crossed the floor’. With gas, once the summer months fade out I often find (having a wife with health issues) that we need to pop the central heating on for an hour. A heat pump cannot do that no matter what you say. Anyway, I am not here to knock the choices that we as individuals make. There is never 100% agreement on any topic in the world. On a serious note, what is the maximum heat output from your largest radiator? I realise that it is three times the size of your old gas powered ones, but why is that?

smallblueplanet

dfk41″#p80846 A heat pump cannot do that no matter what you say.

Of course it can. It’s just another form of heating water - but it would negate the efficiencies of using a heat pump.

dfk41 On a serious note, what is the maximum heat output from your largest radiator? I realise that it is three times the size of your old gas powered ones, but why is that?

No real idea. The radiators are a bit bigger than the ones we had with the oil boiler, they fit in the same space but some are a bit wider/taller/longer.

The way the heat pump is most efficient is for it to be working all/most of the time. So your house will always be at the temperature you want it to be - why would you need to ‘boost’ the heat?

Rob666

smallblueplanet The way the heat pump is most efficient is for it to be working all/most of the time. So your house will always be at the temperature you want it to be - why would you need to ‘boost’ the heat?

And this is just one of the reasons a heat pump would not suit us. The current heating system is on for two hours in the morning, half an hour at lunchtime and six hours in the afternoon/evening supplemented by a log burner when it’s cold. This schedule works perfectly for us and has done for nearly 30 years. We just don’t want or need heating 24 hours a day.

DavecUK

The reason I went down this route is most of my heating system components (loft bathroom shower pump, central heating pump, 3 way valve, DHW cylinder, 2 quartz aqualisa pumped units (17 years old), drayton heating controller, room thermostat (30 years old) required replacement soon, as well as the pumped shower electrical units in the loft. The heat only boiler was 9 years old so probably good for another 3 years before maintenance issues arise requiring parts that will be increasingly hard to get.

The DWH cylinder was only 110 litres, not large enough for a 5/5 bedroom house, so a 250 litre, far better heat pump pressurised cylinder seemed a better idea., plus (I lost the 2 very large coffin tanks in the loft. With 10 radiator replacements required (which were included as part of the 60% of total radiators free), this also replaced many of the 30 year old rads ….leaving only 1 old original double rad left in the house. I had already replaced a few 10 years ago.

The price for all the work, including fitting entirely new shower units (I would buy), the replacement cylinder and a Vaillant Arotherm+ 7kW heat pump was £4899 (after grant was applied)

This includes disposal of all removed items and gas boiler etc..plus all electrical work, rads etc. of course.

I made the shower installation very easy by buying 2 replacement Quartz Aqualisa units for pressurised systems, these have no pump, but are backward compatible with my existing shower heads and data cables, effectively a drop in replacement. These cost me £350 each unit, but made the installation so much simpler and neater. Plumber knew exactly what to do when he saw them as he had used them before.

So a 5 or 6 bedroom house, with 2 bathrooms, 3 showers, 2 baths and 4 toilets

How will it work, unsure should be fine but the original build contained 10mm microbore, additional rooms and the loft conversion all used 15mm copper/plastic.

Here’s the thing, will it be cheaper to run than mains gas…with price capped electric vs mains gas prices. No, it will be a little more expensive I estimate in the winter, around £4.80 per day for gas and £5.47 for electric:

The advantages though:

All components of the heating system replaced (except pipework) and up to date/new
I am home all day and when you run a heat pump, they love being on all the time with a small set back in temp at night, so I can keep the house at 20C all the time without the rises and deep falls I get using my gas boiler for 3 hours morning and evening.

I have reached that point where I don’t think I should be cold. Plus there is an Ovo heat pump tariff where everything used by the heat pump is 15p per kW, if I can get on to that, then it will be considerably cheaper to run than mains gas!

dfk41

DavecUK so I can keep the house at 20C all the time without the rises and deep falls I get using my gas boiler for 3 hours morning and evening.

You can do that with gas…..you set the thermostat for your desired temperature! The idea of putting it on for a couple of hours in the morning then again in the evening is fine if you are out all day but when you are at home, then the idea of constantly heating the house makes sense. Of course, this is all pie in the sky until you have tried it out for a decent period of time so fingers crossed for you! But, once heat pumps gain a hold and gas is taxed out of the market to force us onto heat pumps, do you think there will be cheap tariffs such as the one you hope to get on to? I would like to bet they all mysteriously disappear somehow.

HarveyMushman

Definitely interesting to hear about it all. Our entire heating system is only 5 years old (as that’s the age of the house…) so probably haven’t got to think about it for a while but I can see the merits.

dfk41

Rob666 Who in their right mind designs a product that needs to be running constantly? Oops, theres the cynic in me again!

smallblueplanet

Rob666

How quickly do temperatures change where you live? The ‘heating’ works to keep your rooms at a set temperature - if you want to be at 18C for 24 hours then that is what you get. If you want to be 18C say from 23:00 to 08:00 and then 20C from 08:00 to 17:00 and then 22C from 17:00 to 23:00 then you can do that. But doing that heating it is better to have the pump working constantly rather than on and off on and off - but I believe gas boilers also work more efficiently if you run them like that.

smallblueplanet

dfk41 Do you understand how they work? It is more efficient to run constantly - but if you’re not interested in efficiency fair enough.

Rob666

smallblueplanet How quickly do temperatures change where you live?

Not very quickly. What it boils down to is I want to be warm for an hour or so in the morning when I get up and comfortable from 5PM to 11Pm. The house does not get too chilly overnight even on very cold days and the gas CH is external temperature compensated to make sure I’m warm at the set times in the morning and evening. In short I only need heating for 8 hours out of 24. Running a heat pump 24/7 just doesn’t make sense to me.

dfk41

smallblueplanet I understand exactly how they work. I fully understand efficiency as well. My point is for example, if you want to shift a room from 18 to 20 when it is minus 2 outside, how many weeks does it take to adjust (and this is presuming it actually can)? There is nothing more economical than not having to use a heater. You are talking about efficiency as in getting the best from the system.

If you look at the Scandinavian countries where houses for years have been far better insulated than those in the UK with triple glazing, the eco warriors shout loudly that the heat pumps work ever so well in those cases. Of course the second part of the sentence they conveniently forget to tell you, is that virtually every house has a wood burning stove to do the donkey work.

The housing stock in this country is not suitable for the blanket installation of heat pumps. You know something is not really that good when the government have to persuade you through grants to fit them, that is until they start to tax gas forcing you into using electricity at 4 to 5 times the cost……and who happens to have the most expensive electricity in the developed world?

dfk41

DavecUK What happens if you are not an engineer? Everything you talk about is a paper calculation looking at efficiency whereas the vast majority of people could no give a monkeys chuff about efficiency! They want heat delivered when they want it!

I understand your theories Dave but after a cold winter, I will be interested to see how it pans out. I did ask @smallblueplanet earlier in this thread this question:

dfk41 if you want to shift a room from 18 to 20 when it is minus 2 outside, how many weeks does it take to adjust (and this is presuming it actually can)? There is nothing more economical than not having to use a heater. You are talking about efficiency as in getting the best from the system.

Can you answer it? You get your calculations slightly wrong and due to a cold snap the house is not warm enough……what happens next?

Pompeyexile

A very polarising subject. Just like to say that I have a mate who lives in Sweden and I have been about 5 times to visit several times in the winter when it has been minus 20 degrees.

He has had three houses all heated by heat pumps and no log fires in them.

Every one were always at a comfortable enough temp to wear T shirts and shorts even whilst outside it was cold enough to freeze the proverbials off a brass monkey.

Having said that I am not considering a heat pump because when the central heating was put in years before we bought it they used micro bore throughout so the lot would need changing which would mean every floor opened up.

I am seriously thinking of solar panels and a battery though especially as we have an EV. Plus I am wanting to take out our old range gas cooker and replace it with electric and induction hob.

Speaking to a friend who has had that for about three years says it is very good and his leccy bills minuscule compared to before he had it fitted.

DavecUK

Pompeyexile Having said that I am not considering a heat pump because when the central heating was put in years before we bought it they used micro bore throughout so the lot would need changing which would mean every floor opened up.

I am seriously thinking of solar panels and a battery though especially as we have an EV. Plus I am wanting to take out our old range gas cooker and replace it with electric and induction hob.

My central heating everywhere except extensions uses 10 mm microbore, which is apparently OK, if you have 8mm microbore, then yes, pipework would need changing. The proof of the pudding will be in winter, for costs and comfort levels. I did make sure that the 10 rads that were changed were all quite high power and a little above the heat loss calculations, as I want to run a 40 or 45C flow temp if I can, because every 5C flow temp change is a 10% efficiency change and they like to set em up with a standard max flow temp of 50C.

Same with hot water, I only want 50C max in the DHW tank (which kills it in 2 hours) and no legionnaire cycles set up…because in the domestic environment it’s absolutely not a thing. In fact there has never been a legionnaires disease death due to legionnaires in a domestic situation..

Cuprajake I hated our electric hob

Gas is so much better

I used to have a gas hob and when cooking was happening (by my ex) the heat would carry the fat globules everywhere, but it was messy, hard to clean the hob. I had wanted an induction cooker for many years, as soon as the divorce when through just over 4 years ago, I fitted an induction hob. Way better, no heat in the kitchen in summer, no fat spread in the hot air and a wipe clean flat surface….I avoid scratches and mess with a square of grease proof backing parchment…..I would never go back to gas.

All my showers now work good with the pressurised system and the hot water pressure at all taps is of course, much better and the huge DWH tank leaks almost no heat….The airing cupboard is pretty much the same temp, side of cylinder is cold to the touch and that’s without any pipe lagging installed yet.

Cuprajake

I hated our electric hob

Gas is so much better

The gas supply wont dwindle, we will just get priced out and only the wealthy will afford it

This massive push to electric isn’t going to work when they can’t ultimately supply the demand.

Again the cynic in me says electric is easier to turn off than a gas supply should they want to control you.

But when you hear how companies get more money for not turning wind farms on then something is wrong, they have admitted to not using them all the time as there would be too much free energy coming through

Cuprajake

And what pisses me off is they offer cheap electric to charge your car or use a heat pump. 🤬

This all being said i hope all goes well with the install dave

dfk41

I fully agree, that in the right circumstances heat pumps make sense, but it has to be a perfect storm. Our housing stock in many parts of the country is very old. Single brick terraced houses with poor insulation. They have already forced new builds off gas. It will take hundreds of years, not 2030 or 2050.

A quick google on electricity prices in Sweden throws up this:

In Sweden, electricity prices vary based on consumption levels and location, but generally, they are relatively low compared to other European countries, according to Statista. The average wholesale price in April 2025 was 33.46 euros per megawatt-hour. For households, prices can range from around 0.09 to 0.24 EUR per kilowatt-hour depending on the size of the household’s consumption.

Here’s a more detailed breakdown:

Wholesale Prices:

In April 2025, the average wholesale electricity price in Sweden was 33.46 euros per megawatt-hour.
This is a significant decrease from the peak in December 2022, which reached 235 euros per megawatt-hour. S

So on that basis, even I would have a heat pump, but at the prices we pay for electricity coupled to the fact that renewables simply cannot keep up with providing our needs without reverting to other sources just does not make sense. Were we rich in hydroelectricity for example, I would not waste the effort required to turn off the light switch…..sadly though, we are not. Therefore to my simplistic way of thinking, no matter how energy efficient heat pumps/electric cars are if you live in a country with electric prices between 3 and 5 times more expensive than many other countries, I do not understand any argument put forward to promote the use.

Cuprajake

on youtube theres a woman who lives in the coldest place in the world -72 edge of russia, the housing blocks have triple doors, triple glazing, they have the gas central heating on 24/7 and she pays less than me a month lol

dfk41

We went from a gas hob for 32years over to an induction hob. The move was forced when we moved. Now that I have replaced the hob with a more modern oneI have to say that I do not think would move back to gas….

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