Cleaning grouphead of an e61 machine

veganwithabeef

Hi, I’m just wondering if anyone has any recommendations for articles that explain how to clean this part of an E61 machine. I’m assuming it’s called the grouphead, but if not, whatever this part of the machine is, I’ve noticed it’s gotten pretty grimy, with coffee particles noticeably stuck in the crevices. I always use a puck screen, which does a good job of reducing the need to clean the shower screen, and I backflush the machine with Puly Caff weekly (to avoid wearing out the lubricant)

delta76

Backflush a few times with detergent (puly caff), which would loosen the gunk. Then you can use a tooth brush or something similar to brush them off. Backflush a few times more.

You would need to to lube the lever after

veganwithabeef

So there’s no need to disassemble it? I’ve disassembled it before to lubricate the lever, but I haven’t done any work on the part that needs cleaning.

memzey

What machine is it? On my E61 that part just unscrews (a short flat head screwdriver makes is more convenient to do) and then the part itself can be cleaned with dish soap and a sponge while a brush can be taken to its housing.

On another note; Unless you are running a cafe I wouldn’t be using puly caff every week, especially if you are using puck screens on every shot. I have no scientific knowledge to back this up but I’d assume, with that frequency of use, the detergent is bound to degrade the O rings and seals along its path, unnecessarily so. I have taken to flushing the group after each shot and back-flushing every couple of weeks or so. I might then use puly caff every 3 or 4 months, prior to a re-grease, and the foam still comes out of the machine a pristine, pure white i.e. very little if any muck. I think the “little and often” approach to keeping your coffee machine internals clean has a lot going for it.

delta76

memzey There is not much for the detergent to wear in a E61. I performed back flush every month/every other month (on average, 4 cups per day) with my Bianca, even with a puck screen. What came out was not clean :)
I could do it monthly but was a bit lazy on lubing part.

veganwithabeef

memzey Thank you for the advice — it unscrewed very easily and was very easy to clean! I try to only use Puly Caff every 1–2 months since I use a puck screen to minimise the need for cleaning. My routine mirrors yours — backflushing after each shot — and it seems to be working so far, but thanks for the concern.

delta76

I no longer have an E61 so I’m not 100% sure if that can be disassembled. But when I had one, I didn’t do anything with it, usually just a few wipes + backflush are good enough.
You can try with some flat screw driver (a spoon might do) to see if you can unscrew it, but don’t force it if you can’t.

Adrianmsmith

delta76 (a spoon might do)

Nnnnnnooooooooooooo!!

memzey

delta76 You might be right. Like I say, I don’t have any specific knowledge on that, but I assume that detergent will have an impact on the rubber seals in the waste valve parts etc. Better safe than sorry in my book but YMMV.

I have found that flushing after each shot, in combination with use of a puck screen, has made a difference to the cleanliness of my Bianca. Significantly so. Very little has the chance to build up now so the machine basically stays clean day-to-day.

Cuprajake

they unscrew and can be replaced but they discolour pretty quickly anyways

delta76

Adrianmsmith let’s find out

Elcarajillo

I would not use a spoon (cos it. will hurt more POFT0. A broad bladed s/driver or a large steel washer, you can file a flat on the edge for a wider fit.

Cuprajake

or a 2p

delta76

Cuprajake right that works better. I was thinking about it but wrote spoon ( used to remove the shower screen)

jrling

delta76 DaveC put me onto using two spoons inserted into the slots where the portafilter ears go to gently loosen and remove E61 shower screen on my QM Verona. Works a treat. I apply a little grease to the rubber gasket securing the shower screen as that makes screen removal easier.

delta76

memzey the only o-ring in the water path in the group head is the o-ring of the flow control (and two of them), and I’m pretty sure the water does not get there when you backflush. there is no other o-ring from the shower head to the lower group - you can refer to the diagram.
o-ring are also consumable parts and you will need to replace periodically anyway, I would rather replace those (pretty cheap if buying in bulk, in advance), than leaving my machine dirty. but yeah YMMV

memzey

I think you also have those little rubber gaskets in the valves as well. Not sure how easy they are to replace without swapping the brass bits out as I’ve not had to replace them yet. You might not mind having to replace those as well. I’m sanguine on that point as they are easy to get to and I doubt they are expensive.

The only point I object to is the notion that not flushing with detergent every month is “leaving my machine dirty”. That does not match my observations. My machine is spotless and I don’t use detergents with anything like that frequency. If it needed it, I would use it, no question about it. Even used monthly it will probably take me 20 years to work through the big jug of Puly Caff I’ve got and regreasing the group takes me no more than 20 minutes, tops. If you always use puck screens and don’t let muck build up (in my case by flushing after every shot, washing the shower screen and dispersion block every other month and back flushing every week or so), the benefit of the detergent is likely to be very, very marginal.

Tal

memzey

The e61 valve seals are easy, did them on my Vesuvius the other week, and also on an Expobar E61 too. Tbf the entire e61 is easy to service.

delta76

As I said, YMMV. With selenoid valve machines I am happy with backflushing every week. With bianca i had to once every 6-7 weeks and I was not super happy with that. If your machine is clean with less cleaning, good for you. Mine is just adequately clean :).

memzey

Tal Yes, I agree E61s are easy to work on, which is a big positive for them to my mind. The bits you want to get to are all there in front of you and straight forward to access. I’m always a bit surprised when people mention “maintenance” as a negative for this type of machine but we each have different perspectives and tolerances for involvement.

I’m interested, with your Vesuvius, did you change the seals themselves or replace the valves completely? I don’t believe I’ve seen anything other than valve replacement kits for my Bianca.

memzey

veganwithabeef Good stuff. I remain of the opinion that if you keep your machine clean, shot after shot, the frequency of your need for detergents is greatly diminished.

Tal

memzey

I measured the valve seals, the Vesuvius use the universal e61 sizes, 13 × 4 × 4mm.

If you remove the valve, use a towel (to prevent damage) and a set of grips to hold the valve body itself, then using an adjustable spanner, undo the valve stem, which can be triangle or square in profile.

Once undone, remove the little washer (keep it safe) and pry out the seal. I have a set of picks, some have flat blades etc, I use one of those to remove the seal safely.

Then insert the new seal, locate the washer, then tighten up the valve stem in the same way it was undone.

Main thing is to go carefully. The thread is very narrow diameter so you don’t want to over tighten. But the set of seals should cost you £3 for basic rubber, around £6ish for the green viton ones.