New to Lelit Elizabeth, coffee burnt

dontrok1

Coming from Bambino Plus, new with Lelit Elizabeth since 4 days, really happy to have this monster machine.

What I’m experiencing is burnt coffee, even with reasonable brewing time. I searched all over the internet without results… I give you all the details:

I’m brewing an Blend origin medium roast for a ratio of 1:2 (18in, 36out) at 93°C setup on the machine. I’m using a DF54 grinder with stock flat burrs. The total brewing time was total of 14s with 3s of preinfusion. I know it’s too little, I was expecting a really sour shot, but instead I got a bitter burnt espresso…

I changed all the advanced settings to Dave Corbey ones.

I start brewing after 20 minutes I turned on the machine, and before start doing that I check the temperatures of the 2 boilers reaching the correct targeted temps.

The preparation is the classic one:

- Purge a shot on the STOCK portafilter basket with IMG BigBang 18-20gr basket, and clean it, to warm it up.

- Taking 18gr of coffee beans measured with a small scale, and sprout a couple of shots of water for RDT, and mixing it.

- Slowly pouring the beans in DF54 while turned on, and placing the grinded coffee in the portafilter basket with dosator ring.

- I use WDT enough to make everything uniform without lumps, and I do a gentle bump on the mat.

- I remove the dosing ring and tamp with leveled tamper. I have also the NCD (distribution tool) but I rarely use it.

- I put a 1mm puck screen (so it’s like having a 19gr in the basket).

- I purge another fast shot (3s~), clean with microfiber cloth, and attach the portafilter to the grouphead.

- I place the cup pre-heated (I just place on top of the machine and it heates naturally) and scale underneath, and click the shot 1 button.

The result: 36gr of coffee, the coffee it’s not too hot, seems a good temperature. But the taste is bitter but the burnt bitterness. And the puck was really dry, difficult to pull away from the portafilter. Really strange with 14s of brewing at 93°C…

As you can see, I’m doing literally all the stuff people do when brewing coffee, maybe also more than that.

I need to understand if I’m really missing something, or if something is not working properly. It’s more like the machine even if it says 93°C it’s working at higher temperatures like 110°C or something like that… I don’t know for sure, I’m going by logic since 14s for a bitter burnt coffee and super-dry puck seems the only logical explanation…

Thank you in advance if you read until here! ❤️

dfk41

dontrok1 The total brewing time was total of 14s with 3s of preinfusion.

The Elizabeth on button one is 3 seconds of injecting water onto the puck then 6 seconds of pre-fnfusion, so realistically the shot should start at the 10 to 12 second point, then take 30 seconds from that point. What you have described is impossible! The DF54 is not really up there with it. If you really are going from pressing the button on to pressing the button off in 14 seconds, then possibly your beans are shite or you really need to make your grind a lot finer (or both). Can you take a good quality photo of your grinds before you tamp them please

delta76

dontrok1 93°C is the target temp at group head. Boiler temp will by default be +10°c. Just try with 90°C if you notice any change in taste

MediumRoastSteam

dontrok1 Purge a shot on the STOCK portafilter basket with IMG BigBang 18-20gr basket, and clean it, to warm it up.

Don’t do this.

jhf

36g of coffee in 14 seconds is a lot. I suggest adjusting the grind to finer so that 36g of coffee is in 30-35 seconds.

Tal

Grind finer as they say…..Also no need to pull a blank shot to heat the portafilter, it should be in the group head while the machine warms up already.

14s is too fast, even for most turbo shots. Df54 is capable of espresso, so grind finer and see where you get to.

When were the beans roasted? Burnt flavour I’ve always associated with stale coffee.

Puck was dry as it’s created no back pressure, all the water has pished through

dndrich

Well, first you really have to get a reasonable shot time before you can comment on taste. Grind finer until a time of say 35 seconds including the pre infusion and report back. No way to judge taste with those pulls.

delta76

MediumRoastSteam not sure why not. I always do that to clean any debris left on the shower head. Always find some ground in the cup after that blank shot.
It is not necessary to warm up the portafilter especially the bottomless one.

MediumRoastSteam

delta76 - you should clean the screen after the shot - not before. Dave used to call those machines “walk and pull” - or something like that. If you flush the Elizabeth beforehand, to the tune of a fake shot, then the machine will be unstable. It’s a dual boiler with a very small brew boiler. It’s not an HX machine which needs a cooling flush or an E61 with a badly designed thermal syphon. The boiler is mounted on top of the group, so there’s no need to do much to that extent. IMMV.

delta76

MediumRoastSteam it’s 350ml boiler. you pull an empty shot, wipe it, then grind and do prep, more than enough time for the boiler to recover.
Of course it’s a “habit” thing, and both is fine. I’m not saying it’s required or anything, but relax on the workflow, there is no “only right” approach.
Back to the original question, have you @dontrok1 tried to lower the temp? that’d be an easy next step to try.

MediumRoastSteam

Clodius

What coffee exactly? The blend may be the culprit as well, try something else.

Personally I have 8s of preinfusion, it works well for me/my lattes.

I made the workflow better for you (additions in italic):

- Slide in the portafilter and puck screen when you turn on the machine. It will heat up naturally without the need to purge.

~~- Purge a shot on the STOCK portafilter basket with IMG BigBang 18-20gr basket, and clean it, to warm it up.~~

- Taking 18gr of coffee beans measured with a small scale, and sprout a couple of shots of water for RDT, and mixing it.

- Slowly pouring the beans in DF54 while turned on, and placing the grinded coffee in the portafilter basket with dosator ring. Reduce the grind size until the yield is 36-40g in 30s

- I use WDT enough to make everything uniform without lumps, and I do a gentle bump on the mat.

- I remove the dosing ring and tamp with leveled tamper. I have also the NCD (distribution tool) but I rarely use it.

- I put a 1mm puck screen (so it’s like having a 19gr in the basket).

~~- I purge another fast shot (3s~), clean with microfiber cloth, and attach the portafilter to the grouphead.~~

- I place the cup pre-heated (I just place on top of the machine and it heates naturally) and scale underneath, and click the shot 1 button.

Tal

I’ve recently kept it super simple, and in my experience, RDT and WDT are not needed while using my grinders (Duo, Specialita) and machine (V), I’ve stopped doing either and my shots are more consistent than ever…

After grinding I defo agree with a tap on the mat. As I don’t wdt it levels the bed below the edge of the portafilter for tamping.

Hopefully they will report back once they’ve sorted their grind size out