How many coffees have you made in one go?

Clodius

I had a party at home today and after the cake, I asked people if they wanted some coffee. A lot of them did, so I ended up making 12 in one go, straight espressos, cortados and lattes.

I don’t remember how long it took, but it felt like a long time. I feel like I moved pretty quickly, kind of like working in a café. I started with the espressos, moved on to the cortados and finished with the lattes. I had the doses pre-weighed and ready, so I didn’t have to worry about that.

The Elizabeth and Niche Zero held their own. Pretty proud of them, as well as the whole “project”.

How about you? What’s the most coffees you’ve made in one go?

MWJB

About the same, 12 or so cups of cafetiere coffee in two 1.5L Bodum Colombia insulated French presses. 1200g water to 80g coffee per pot.

Grind medium to coarse pour over, steep for 1-2hours, takes 10 min to get them brewing, then when everyone is ready, skim & pour it out & let them add whatever milk/sugar as desired.

Sprofucius745

-Straight espresso 14 extractions in maybe 45 mins… 6 for personal consumption, 8 for daughter to make tiramisu…

-A mix of espresso/milk for the mere mortals was 12 extractions and enough milk for 10 drinks in maybe an hour for Thanksgiving get together…

Machine Silvia Pro, grinder a Baratza Forte AP…

Both kept up easily as quick as I could knock each one out, prep for the next, etc. Topped off water tank, wiped things down quickly after each drink and just slayed it.

Dusk

I think I’ve made about 5 latte’s in one go, the biggest issue I had was getting a good workflow. I felt like my equipment could easily deal with the task but I was the most inefficient part of the process!

dfk41

Some household machines can make 2 on the trot, some can make 3…..then they need a rest. The group has to acclimatise between shots. The end result is the more you pull then the faster the shots pour…..prosumer machines are better as the groups often weigh several lbs, then you move on to commercials.

Sprofucius745

dfk41 Lower quality/less capable sure… my SP was cranking out an extraction every few-3 mins back-back with no loss in quality, color, texture. Recovery time even after texturing milk for those weak mere mortal concoctions was impressive and didn’t leave me waiting as recovery was on par with my prep for the next.

Clodius

@dfk41 That issue happens mainly on thermoblock or small single-boiler machines where the PID can’t keep up and water flash-boils into steam, causing channeling.

On modern dual boilers with saturated or integrated groups (like the Elizabeth), the group boiler sits directly above the shower screen, and a 1200W element regulates a small 300ml brass volume. Because shot displacement is only ~15% of the boiler volume, PID recovery happens within 15–20 seconds, well before you can prep the next basket. As long as you keep the portafilter hot, back-to-back shots pour at the exact same flow rate and extraction time without needing a rest.

MediumRoastSteam

Clodius Because shot displacement is only ₁₅% of the boiler volume

Not necessarily on the Elizabeth. The boiler holds 300ml. On an average double espresso, there’s about 36ml of liquid for an 18g dose. That’s 12%. But don’t forget the 18g of water absorbed by the coffee itself and also the expansion valve water returning to tank. I think I measured it once and wrote on this forum - but can’t remember. What I’m saying is that it might be more like 25 - 30% displacement. And if you use a Graph basket - there’s even more water which needs to fill the basket. The recovery on the Elizabeth, depending on what your PID settings and whether it’s 110V or 230V can be around 1 minute, sometimes more if you steam and brew at the same time (steam has priority over brewing I think - they don’t come on concurrently) and if you use a Graph basket. In my experience with this machine over the past 6 years.

dfk41

Clodius Because shot displacement is only ~15% of the boiler volume, PID recovery happens within 15–20 seconds,

For me, the PID has nothing to do with it @Clodius since as far as I am aware it regulates water temperature in the boiler and not the temperature of the group itself. The more water you pull though the group, the more the group itself heats up. The only cooling mechanism available is time to rest. So even though the PID tells you the temperature is correct, that is not the whole picture. Of course as always, I am quite happy to be wrong. The effect of the group being too hot has a large effect on the shot itself. This is why commercial machines have large multiple heavy groups.

Clodius

@dfk41 If a PID is causing the water to overheat, that’s just a broken or poorly tuned PID. A properly calibrated PID cuts power before hitting the target temp to prevent overshoot.

Clodius

@MediumRoastSteam Agreed on the math, it’s definitely closer to 20–25%.

Heating that 60ml of incoming water with the 1200W element takes about 15–20 seconds. Once you add in puck prep time, the PID is back at setpoint well before the next shot, as long as you keep the portafilter hot in the group.

Also, you might be thinking of an HX machine like the Mara X regarding steam priority. On a dual boiler like the Elizabeth, both boilers heat independently, so steaming milk won’t pause or slow down the coffee boiler.

dfk41

Clodius I am ruling the pid out of the equation matey. A normal group takes 15 to 20 minutes to heat up. If you pull shots you are increasing the thermal mass of the group. It needs time to come back to ‘normal’ working temperature. I know you are a scientist so I cannot argue with you on the finer scientific points. There is nothing special about the Elizabeth set up to make the group recover faster. All I can tell you is if you pull half a dozen shots back to back they will become increasingly worse and pour faster. I find it hard to fathom that you think your twelfth shot was as good as your first, but hey ho!

Dusk

Surely a pid can do the job of a big solid lump of metal. Something like a Decent doesn’t require a massive heatsink. Old commercial machines would have had size and thermal mass in place of a high tech pid. Surely modern machines can have more complex pids to do the same job without needing to be so heavy to achieve back to back repeatability and consistency

MediumRoastSteam

Clodius Also, you might be thinking of an HX machine like the Mara X regarding steam priority. On a dual boiler like the Elizabeth, both boilers heat independently, so steaming milk won’t pause or slow down the coffee boiler.

Not in my experience with this machine, I’m sorry. The machine is rated to 1500W if I’m not mistaken. I’ve used a power meter and there’s never an instance when the power consumption exceeds 1,300W - leading me to believe both boilers are never on simultaneously at full power. Maybe they alternate, maybe the power through the machine is shared. But not fully on.

In my experience, if you steam at the same time, the brew boiler takes longer to recover.

Clodius

@dfk41 you’re right about my shots starting to pour faster around shot 5, and I had to grind a bit finer to compensate.

Didn’t think about it until now, and it all makes sense, I was rinsing the portafilter under the hot tap between shots. Tap water is only around 50°C–55°C, so doing that repeatedly actually cooled the portafilter basket down compared to the 92°C group. That apparently causes edge channelling, making the flow faster.

My lesson learned is flush from the group, Not the sink

Clodius

@MediumRoastSteam Fair enough. Real-world results in the cup beat paper physics.

What you said about power got me doing a bit of digging. From what I found, the Elizabeth uses a Solid State Relay with the PID, which pulses the power in fast fractions of a second (PWM) rather than just toggling elements fully on or off.

If you were using a standard power meter, those usually average out power draw over 1 or 2-second windows .

Anyway, definitely went too deep on the electronics side of things, but appreciate the good discussion.

MediumRoastSteam

Clodius - good discussions are always welcome! 👍