itguy I thought I’d just do a quick update on how I’ve been getting on since upgrading my v1 to the v2 gicar and software.

It’s utterly brilliant!

Thank you for sharing your experience! Fantastic to hear this has improved the machine so much for you. It certainly sounds like it was worth doing.

I also think it is brilliant that there is such an easy way to bring the machine up to date. It is often a frustration for consumers when a new model comes up with good stuff, and they are forced to upgrade the whole thing, or stay behind.

My understanding is that the V2 Mara X has two changes compared to V1 (I am disregarding the printed logo): The OPV reroute to the pump (which anyone can do and costs nothing); And the updated Gicar box with new software. Replace the Gicar box and do the OPV mod - and you have turned your V1 to a V2. I don’t know if Lelit intended to make it so easy to update the machine, but it is certainly great from a consumer perspective.

Having read your report, my understanding is that in Steam boost mode the V2 improvement is in steam performance only, and that brew temp stability is the same as V1. I further understand this is important for steaming larger quantities of milk, or making multiple milk drinks. So am I correct in concluding that in my personal scenario (only making single drinks and only steaming small quantities for a single 170ml flat-white) there is actually no benefit in the V2 behaviour? The way I use the machine I never had an issue with not enough steam power, so I think that for me the V2 software wouldn’t do anything, but maybe I am wrong?

(I know there is also the new no-steam-boost mode in the V2, but this is only a benefit when making multiple back-to-back espressos with no steaming - which is another thing that I don’t do).

      Doram Well, I have found that there is a greater steaming pressure than with the V1 software when boosting. My V1 software never used to get about about 1.4 bar on steam boost, whereas now it is 1.6 to 1.7 bar every time. I also noticed on the v1 software that the pressure for steaming was also different depending on what coffee brew temperature was selected, whereas now that isn’t the case.

      It’s like in the old software it would boost for X seconds after brewing and not keep going if the desired target boiler temp wasn’t reached. Whereas now, v2, it just boosts until it reaches the required pressure.

      Although I think you wouldn’t see a big difference, I do think you’d still notice it. It would also give you much more ability to play with 3 or 4 hole steam tips too of course.

          19 days later

          itguy

          This is really interesting. I to suffer from the autofill issue, although not as often/badly as you seemed to. I really wonder what @Doram is doing different for this to never be an issue for him 🤔

          I assume you are still happy with the upgrade? I just watched the Lelit Insider video on how to change it, pretty easy by the looks of it, a straight swap. If I’m not able to sell my machine I think I’ll do this as well.

              Bicky I to suffer from the autofill issue, although not as often/badly as you seemed to. I really wonder what @Doram is doing different for this to never be an issue for him 🤔

              I do sometimes get an auto-fill mid steaming, but you are right that it hasn’t been an issue for me. Is your machine boosting to ~1.5 bar after a shot? If it isn’t, then it’s not behaving as mine. If it is, then maybe it’s not an issue for me because I steam small quantities of milk? For how I use the machine I find the steam power plenty, so a couple of seconds of auto-fil don’t cause any problem.

              Reading @itguy ’s report, and also seeing videos of V2 next to V1, it is clear that V2 has a more significant steam boost (to 1.6 bar or more, and it holds it there for longer), so if you find the steam power insufficiant, then the V2 Gicar box certainly looks like a worthwhile upgrade to consider.

                  Bicky

                  YES! Very very happy with the upgrade, it’s transformed the machine in to what it always should have been in my opinion.

                    Doram

                    I too could work around the auto-fill by using the machine in certain ways. I knew exactly what was causing it in my workflow and thus could adapt to it. With the V2 box I just don’t need to adapt any more, the machine just delivers every time.

                      Doram

                      Mine boosts to 1.5 but on occasion it doesn’t maintain that, and falls away to 1.1-1.2. When this happens, once I stop steaming the autofill will kick in maybe 10 seconds later, I can always predict this. After this it boosts back up to 1.5.

                      I can always still get the milk to the required temperature, but it affects the texture when it happens.

                          Bicky Mine boosts to 1.5 but on occasion it doesn’t maintain that, and falls away to 1.1-1.2. When this happens, once I stop steaming the autofill will kick in maybe 10 seconds later, I can always predict this. After this it boosts back up to 1.5.

                          Hmmm… mine doesn’t do that, so I can’t comment.

                          Have you changed your mind about selling the machine? Did you decide to sell because of the steam power?

                              Doram

                              I haven’t changed my mind, but there doesn’t seem to be much interest 🤷‍♂️

                              I’m not selling because of this particular quirk, it’s a minor irritation to me if I’m honest. I’m selling because I drink more pour over than espresso these days, so it seems excessive to have such a machine that’s getting used once per day, if at all.

                              I’ve also wanted a manual lever, like the Robot or Flair, for a long time, but I can’t justify having one of these and the Mara.

                              It’s a fantastic machine, I have no regrets buying it, and do wonder if I’d regret selling it!

                                Doram

                                My v1 boosts to 1.5 bar and holds for a few minutes (medium temp setting).

                                Regarding the boiler refills, it happens for me after 3-4 milk (100ml) drinks…and sometimes it happens mid-steaming which can be super frustrating. I don’t see how this can be addressed in the firmware with the type of water level probe being used…maybe someone can enlighten me. There would need to be some sort of time based logic that doesn’t perform a refill within x seconds of a shot pull as long as the water level is within a range. This sounds feasible, but without a continuous level sensor, there would be a damage risk if the controls are calling for steam boost while there is a boiler fill condition (but delayed because of this time based logic). Imagine a situation where the heating element is exposed to air during a steam boost because water was pulled off of the hot water tap immediately after a shot, or there is simply not enough steam generated despite heating because the water is too low. Maybe they could add another level probe that creates a minimum and maximum level, and the boiler refill is suppressed for x seconds after a shot pull only if the water level remains between those two thresholds. This would allow uninterrupted steaming, and could also make sure the boiler is aways topped off after steam boost. Actually, the introduction of cool water into the boiler could speed up the cold down to idle.

                                An observation I have with my machine is by the 3rd or 4th milk drink, I sometimes see that machine is slow to reach 1.5 bar. I believe this is caused by the amount of water in the boiler…just enough to prevent a boiler refill, not quite enough to get to the desired amount of steam. Maybe I could mess around with the length of the fill probe to tweak this.

                                I am really curious about how long it takes V2 to settle back to idle temp…does it still take about 15 minutes? We need someone with a group head thermometer to weigh in on this. If I can get more steam with the same or less recovery, that would sell me on the purchase of a V2 Gicar.

                                    logjames My v1 boosts to 1.5 bar and holds for a few minutes (medium temp setting).

                                    Regarding the boiler refills, it happens for me after 3-4 milk (100ml) drinks…and sometimes it happens mid-steaming which can be super frustrating. I don’t see how this can be addressed in the firmware with the type of water level probe being used…maybe someone can enlighten me.

                                    @itguy is your man for this - I don’t have the V2 Gicar so can’t comment on it, but from what he says he never gets a boiler refill in the middle of steaming anymore. Personally I didn’t find the refills a problem. So much so that initially I didn’t notice I have them. Only after reading complaints about them I noticed they happen. I don’t need much steam for the way I use the machine (single, smallish drinks).

                                    logjames I am really curious about how long it takes V2 to settle back to idle temp…does it still take about 15 minutes?

                                    Again, I can’t comment because I have a V1, but my common sense tells me there can’t be magic here: If the steam boost is stronger and longer, then the group will get hotter and take a bit longer to cool down. How significant it is (maybe not much at all?), is another question for @itguy or someone else who has experience with both V1 and V2.

                                        logjames The only change to steaming logic that could be made is to delay the autofill by n sec, but the heating element must turn off when the probe tip is exposed. However, it would have consequences.

                                        Or a little fill followed by a larger overfill, if inactive probe exposure for n sec. E.g if the probe tip is not exposed again for 15 sec it does a standard overfill, if it is, it does a little fill.

                                        I could speak to Lelit about the second strategy. Or perhaps give it to ECM

                                        Contact me

                                          2 months later

                                          Hi all, I have ordered and received the new V2 Gicar to replace on my V1 Mara X, since I am having lots of steam issues such as boiler refill during steaming.

                                          I ordered from lamacchinadelcaffe.com and they have included a steam probe (code number 9600092) which I did not order. Did they pack it by mistake or I should replace mine? My current steam probe doesn’t seem to have any issue (the digital read out reports correct temperature and there’s no overheating) and it’s the exact code number.

                                            MediumRoastSteam Thanks, I have just installed it and made a flat white. It works as expected, steady steam boost to 1.6 bar after pulling a shot and there was no autofill during frothing.

                                            However after I backflushed a bit (2nd engagement of the lever) the steam boosted further to 134°C / around 2.3 bar, not sure it’s normal but it shouldn’t bother me since I usually don’t pull consecutive shots. From the first shot experience it’s already an improvement!

                                                zellleonhart However after I backflushed a bit (2nd engagement of the lever) the steam boosted further to 134°C / around 2.3 bar

                                                Silly question but I assume you had it in Coffee priority mode? If so, then I might think twice about ordering a V2 - I am waiting for stock at the dealer - as I want to do maybe 3 coffees back to back with no milk/steaming required at all and at the moment it is a PIA with the rapid rise of temp! (I am not that quick at preparing shots)

                                                I did see somewhere that a temp sensor was included with the Gicar and it does seem a bit odd as I doubt it is a special non standard thermistor. It might be just a “belt & braces” approach to solve a possible problem when the customer says “fitted the new Gicar but machine is still overheating”? After all they did have a dodgy batch of sensors last year and I have now fitted 3 to my machine - both originals (suspect batch) went faulty as well as one of the replacements! Only thing is if they only provide one with the Gicar WHICH sensor are you supposed to change? Mine has always been the lower one on the HX fitting.

                                                    woodbar Yes I had it in coffee priority mode. I had the exact issue you described (overheating) when I first received the Mara X 1.5 years ago due to a faulty steam boiler probe, my vendor fixed it with a new probe and it never happened again. My vendor only had ECM probe in stock and that probably avoided any bad batches from Lelit.

                                                    I doubt today’s 2.3 bar steam pressure was ‘overheating’, because that’s the max it stayed at and it dropped afterwards. However I think I need to observe further if it rise up in temp faster than V1 Gicar, because it seems like it does.

                                                    FYI I changed the sensor on top of the boiler, not bottom. That fixed the overheating back then, so I don’t plan to fix what is not broken (for now).

                                                        zellleonhart FYI I changed the sensor on top of the boiler, not bottom. That fixed the overheating back then, so I don’t plan to fix what is not broken (for now).

                                                        Very wise - if it ain’t broke……. as the saying goes.

                                                        Well the problem I had was that after the first coffee of the day it did the normal steam boost up to about 1.5bar BUT would then maintain that forever or until you turned the machine off for 10 minutes then back on and it would revert to normal operation. That turned out to be the bottom HX sensor every time although in the first instance I changed the top sensor on the advice of the dealer! I still have a nagging suspicion that the Gicar may be involved in all this.

                                                        Had that fault 3 times now on my machine which is about 10 months old plus a leak from the water level sensor fitting (only just over finger tight) plus I had to change the portafilter gasket as it was rock hard rubber and was very difficult to use - the silicon replacement is perfect - I went for the 8mm blue one - according to Lelit it should be 8.5mm but the slightly thinner one makes everything line up nicely.

                                                            woodbar I went for the 8mm blue one - according to Lelit it should be 8.5mm

                                                            If you went for Cafelat silicone group gaskets, the blue one is 8.5mm. The red one is 8mm.