I couldn’t find a way to search within the main Minima thread and couldn’t fine relevant comments using the general search, so I hope it’s fine to ask in a dedicated thread:

  • How dry is the steam from the Minima? Does it require purging? My Quick Mill Alexia Evo requires about 90 ml of water to be purged, where as my Elektra lever requires basically none.
  • How does it compare with machines that use E61 grouphead with a mechanical lever? Is there any benefit other than lower maintenance? Is temperature stability worse/same/better? Do owners of the Minima who upgraded from such machines miss the functional benefits of the middle position of the lever (e.g. the option to pre-wet the puck or to hold stable pressure while backflushing after turning off the pump)?
  • Are there any visible cost saving measures compared to a dual boiler E61 machine like the Lelit Bianca?

I’m thinking of upgrading from the Alexia Evo to a dual boiler machine, and the Minima and Bianca are two of the main candidates. The other machines I’m considering are the Lelit Elizabeth and Breville/Sage Dual Boiler.

Thanks in advance!

    Steam is dry, quick purge, no where near 90mls

    Very temp stable, no difference bar les greasing, you can still add a flow control to the top

    The pre wetting thing is a bit of a myth, it only really works if your machine is directly plumbed in, id just use the natural rsmp of the e61 group.

    Not sure on cost savings tbh.

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    Boren I purge mine initially for about 2 to 3 seconds so hardly anything and then it’s good to go.

    Temp stability is great, I’ve not had any issues so far and I bought mine 2nd hand at just under 2 years old. I think the natural ramp up with first drops for me coming in at 9-10 seconds is ample ‘wetting’ of the puck. I also have the Bianca flow profiling paddle on mine but only used for saving a shot that was ground too fine so far. I’ll probably dabble with it soon, holding at an extended low flow as shown in Dave’s videos.

    There’s definitely cost saving measures Vs the Bianca but they’re in different leagues personally. The cheapest part is the water tank which feels like an afterthought, where the Bianca is a well thought out extension of the machine. It does its job and holds water so didn’t bother me enough and the cost savings allow them to charge significantly less than most DB machines. The Minima did everything I needed so didn’t see the reason to go up to the Bianca which was the only other machine on my list.

    If you have the funds I would probably just go for the Bianca as then you won’t have any regrets, but if you’re looking to save a little the Minima is an amazing machine for the cost.

      Boren How does it compare with machines that use E61 grouphead with a mechanical lever? Is there any benefit other than lower maintenance? Is temperature stability worse/same/better? Do owners of the Minima who upgraded from such machines miss the functional benefits of the middle position of the lever (e.g. the option to pre-wet the puck or to hold stable pressure while backflushing after turning off the pump)?

      Better control if you add a flow control device like the Lelit paddle, coffee sensor, or profitec options.

      The middle position of the lever is only useful when plumbed in. You won’t really get anything out on a dual boiler and if you use a HX and do it you get an inconsistent dribble that’s completely pointless and only introduces inconsistency.

      I wouldn’t use it when backflushing either. I could easily be wrong but I pictured it foaming up and going places it shouldn’t e.g the boiler. If you really want to hold pressure you might be able to just turn the machine off, not sure if that automatically causes a purge or not, as you can imagine it’s not something I’ve tried.

      The steam is dry, purge a few seconds and done. I can’t comment too much on cost saving as I have a beta, the metal on mine is thinner. Still, I think there are some things to the finish that aren’t as polished. The drip tray isn’t great. But in terms of use and the coffee you can get out of it, not really (with a flow control mod). The pump on the bianca is rotary (I think?) but it’s also bigger. Personally, I wouldn’t go for the bianca over the Minima just because of the E61 lever, as tempted as I would be to switch to a nice quiet rotary pump. Stick a quiet vibe pump in the Minima and I can’t think of a reason at all. Plenty of people would go for the bianca FOR the lever and for little things like the reservoir, drip tray and a nicer finish.

        Thanks for all the replies everyone, this is very helpful!

        @Cuprajake – I agree that pre-wetting by itself (in machines that are not plumbed in) is not sufficient to completely wet a single 12 gram puck, at least not within 30 seconds. It might be sufficient with those 7 gram 41mm baskets, but that’s not the amount of coffee I want to use normally. Pre-wetting does work if it follows turning on the pump for a few seconds. The pump is very aggressive, so it’s difficult to stop right at the moment when there’s a first drop visible. But if you turn it on for, say, 3 seconds, and then turn it off and start pre-wetting, it’s very easy to stop right at first drop. At least it is if you’re using a bottomless portafilter and a mirror.

        @Alexvs – I have the funds to get the Bianca, but will only go for it if it provides enough value for the higher price (compared to the Minima and the other machines I’m looking at). The only real drawback I see with it (other than maybe size) is that it uses an E61 grouphead, and coming from a machine with one, I’m hoping for better temperature stability in my next machine. Not sure if the lever-less Minima is better here, but I know the Elizabeth and BDB definitely are.

        @Rob1 – I think the middle position is actually useful (see explanation I wrote above about pre-wetting to Cuprajake), but it’s not a must. As for backflushing, the water can’t go anywhere in this position because both valves are closed. It does allow to maintain full pressure for quite long (I usually hold it there for 10 seconds) without straining the pump. I’ve been doing it for a long time with my Quick Mill Alexia Evo with no adverse effects. But just like pre-wetting, it’s definitely not a must have feature.

        these e61 are stable because they are dual boiler, so no worrys there,

        if you have the budget the bianca is the best machine in its price bracket. i loved mine and they are not a big machine, and the water tank can be moved.

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        The issue with E61 temperature stability (even dual boilers) is that water travels a long distance from the boiler to the puck, and it goes through multiple components with different temperatures. In machines where the boilers sits directly on top of the grouphead (such as the Elizabeth and BDB) temperature stability is measured to be consistently better.

          learn something new every day,

          what sort of drop has been measured?

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          With E61 machines getting temperature at the puck that’s 2c above target or 2c below (range of 4c) is considered acceptable. With the Elizabeth and BDB the range narrows to less than 1c in each direction (total range of less than 2c). This is based on reading many forum discussions and viewing many youtube videos, as well as my own experiments with my E61 machine.

          which do you have?

          i ask as ive never read this about dual boiler machines thats all,

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            nice, you dont come across many quickmill machines

            Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

            Boren but if one has a researched offset between the boiler and grouphead won’t this remove any worry there? For instance I’ve been reading that 8*C would be good for my soon to arrive vesuvius. I assume that is due to repeated tests with that machine with thermometer on the group.

                If the total range is 4c, changing the offset would just move the center of it. Instead of being 2c over the target and 2c under it, if you increase the offset by 1 degree you will still have the same 4c range, but your actual temperature will now be within 3c over and 1c under. Obviously if you actual median puck temperature wasn’t centered, changing offset could help fix that. But it would make actual temperature closer to the target one, i.e. it won’t make for a tighter temperature stability.

                JahLaza Check out my advanced settings in the userguide I wrote, pretty sure 8 is not the correct value….I tested the temps. I think a value of 12 or 13 was best. I’d go for 12C.

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                  I’m a bit giddy anticipating the arrival of my new machine which has led to me not checking things like that before hitting post so apologies for my error there! I’ve stopped drinking coffee for today!! I will of course reference your figures @DavecUK when it does arrive. My point was more to do with using an offset after testing any machine which will deliver a desired temp from a boiler set point