spivechild No different from the way in which it “works” in any grinder… which is not by pressure differentials, but by stiction and vibration.
Kopi Deva
Only joking 😅
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
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CoyoteOldMan zero retention is the important factor to me. Pressure differential….is it marketing jargon to claim a unique design? I wouldn’t know how to test it. I could say it’s not true but that would just be my opinion and nothing more.
spivechild Which is more than fair enough - I’m genuinely glad if your Deva gets zero retention and you are happy with it. I’m just quite annoyed at the marketing spin (which is not at all your or Mackerel’s fault). Enjoy your coffee!
if they say it works this way and i experience it just the way they say it is, as you can see in the video, I do not care if anyone calls it a marketing spin. I am just glad i don’t need stupid bellows.
I have hands on experience with a lot of grinders and the way the Deva accomplishes zero retention is unique to me.
And it is not about me talking myself into the purchase. I couldn’t care less what other people think, as i am happy with the results i get from the Deva.
It’s more that i appreciate the effort, the work and the transparency the Deva team put into the project, that i think they don’t deserve false information or dissing of their product.
Feel free to visit Brandon in the workshop and he will answer your questions and give hands on experience like he did with the other guy somewhere above in this thread.
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CoyoteOldMan I share your annoyance, not just with coffee grinders but with many products. We all know it when we see it and read it. Unfortunately it’s all become quite customary. In some cases companies straight up lie and deceive consumers which can cause real harm.
mackerel Feel free to visit Brandon in the workshop
Which I would, if I lived anywhere near (I can’t find an address beyond “UK based”). I don’t think promoting magical thinking is in any way transparent or a good marketing practice, but I doubt they are interested in talking through the magical pressure differential with someone who is not interested in buying - including the magic.
Don’t think you need to be so defensive about it,
Any new product in a highly competitive market like the single dosing grinder market is going to be highly questioned.
I’m glad you’re happy with it, but some people like to go into the technicalities of products which sadly seems in this industry often falls on deaf ears.
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
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CoyoteOldMan magical pressure differential with someone who is not interested in buying - including the magic.
But lets be fair, has it been proven to be “magical” Is what they state regarding pressure differential based on the design completely impossible?
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Am glad Jake posted his observations. Every one of us is happy if the new owners are happy with the Deva. It is ok if some isn’t.
Our forum is known as friendly; open-minded; knowledge sharing; and, genuinely helping / aiding those who have concerns, issues, require more clarity and would like to go into finer details.
It is equally ok for members to freely express their views and challenge the status quo of a product. We can question the views, challenge them in turn and never attack a person personally.
Perhaps, some members can articulate well and others cannot. A lot of members are unlikely to have sufficient technical expertise to understand.
We here to help each other, where ever possible. If we can’t, it is equally ok to otherwise.
But, we must draw a line and not be dismissive of the other person as they are asking too many questions.
Sorry, this is a general observation, nothing personal and thanks to every one for making this an important and an interesting read. 😊
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CoyoteOldMan I observe in commercial grinders (Mazzer and Ceado), that certainly do not make claims about pressure differentials holding the grounds up.
Is it possible the same pressure differential is happening with these grinders too… regardless if it’s claimed or not?
spivechild But lets be fair, has it been proven to be “magical” Is what they state regarding pressure differential based on the design completely impossible?
Completely impossible - no, however I struggle to understand how this would happen, and more so in a way that is unique to the design of the Deva.
The funnel at the top and the chute at the bottom are open, at atmospheric - thus equal - pressure. As far as I can tell, there is no ‘pressure-retaining’ mechanism or device inside the grind path, just the axle and its supports, and the burrs. This means that - including the “fluid” that is the coffee-and-air mix in its various states of grind - all of the grind path is at the same pressure when the motor is not running. When the motor runs, there will be some ‘pressure’ (air speed) generated by the burrs (they can look a bit like turbine vanes, if you think about it), centrifugal forces that push the coffee/air mix, and some viscous drag around the axle - not different from any other flat-burr grinder.
spivechild Is it possible the same pressure differential is happening with these grinders too… regardless if it’s claimed or not?
I have observed that in my Ceado E37S used as a single-doser there is a ‘spurt’ of ground coffee when the last few beans are through; I have seen the same phenomenon occur in a Super Jolly used as single-doser. I think this is because whatever ‘low pressure’ was being generated in the centre of the grinder by centrifugal forces to push the beans (and some air - that’s why they are fluffy) through the burrs is being replaced by atmospheric pressure as the air can get through completely unobstructed. This however is a general ‘truth’ for any grinder that uses centrifugal force as a means (the main means, for a single-doser with flat burrs) to push the beans through the burrs. Claiming it as a patentable innovation strikes me as… well, marketing-speak, to be charitable.
CoyoteOldMan fair enough, makes sense. thanks for taking the time to explain it further.
Unless I have missed reading, has it been tested using light and medium light? Thx
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My point is that it’s clearly being held there by static but the manufacturer is trying to bamboozle, just admit it’s static. I’ll eat my words when the patent goes through…
Edit, no issues with the manufacturer btw, more than happy to see British companies producing good stuff. I think this type of grinder design would have been great for a conical burr set but then they’d be competing with the niche/key.
I asked the question to an engineer and got told
It’s like a vortex thing, air gets reduced, which causes higher pressure which increases air speed which “pulls” stuff through quicker cos of the initial low air pressure at the inlet, jet engines work on a similar principal
That’s why they are wide,slim, wide slim
Is the Deva the F1 guy?
Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -
Yes, so if it was the pressure differential alone was responsible for stopping retention then the wiper arms wouldn’t be necessary right? I’d personally class grinds stuck around the burrs and in the funnel as retention.
The wipers obviously do their job though. An owner on discord said the wipers and burrs getting pretty caked with coffee with no rdt though (static). I’m personally not saying the grinder is bad, I’m sure the issues reported could be dealt with easily enough.
The narrow opening is the only part that would annoy me, I’d rather have the option of using a dosing cup instead of a scoop.