@"MediumRoastSteam"#51 I am reviving that thread here. Two things happened in the last one month 1. I grabbed a tiny Jam jar, which holds \~10.5g. I had some aroma left as the beans was from the airscape. I had kept it in a cup board. which I open 5-6 a day for coffee beans. I opened the jar this afternoon. There was probably some deterioration (I had opened and smelled it at least two times in as many weeks), but not by a significant margin. I pulled a single shot and the coffee was good. https://imgur.com/a/FL9L5cy 2. I had stored Peruvian medium dark - about 450g, from a fresh bag two weeks ago in the air scape container. The beans had pretty good aroma and had deteriorated significantly in two weeks. I open this at least 5-6 times day. I judge this to be no good. I have now transferred the remaining 500g in the airscape container. I do not think it will be any different. Furthermore, I have filled the tiny jam jar with fresh beans. I will check and report after a month.

Great experiment. Mine has not been successful as I have now had two colds through this batch of beans. Having started thinking about bean storage more, read some more (understanding it all is another matter) and based on your comments above I am wondering if freezing in batches of 250g (but not vacuuming) and then transferring to either single dose or daily dose containers is the way to go for me. I am not looking forward to my wife's reaction, but hey ho! 🤣 It seems freezing makes a big difference and if vacuuming isn't essential, this is actually quite an easy change to make.

Vacuuming is too much of a workflow for me at least. Add the plastics as a wastage. No. I freeze the bag, after getting as much air out as possible; draw a portion to thaw overnight and transfer it to the air scape, which, tbh, isn’t different to a coffee vac. The frozen beans stay fresh even after 3-4 months.

https://youtu.be/OzamTSinC9w A youtubers prospective, and we all know youtubers are the authority on all things.

@"LMSC"#p752 I think there should be a distinction between two different storage scenarios and the optional solutions for them. The first is longer term storage (for when we have too much coffee and want to store some of it for a later date). The second is the short-term storage of coffee we currently use on a daily basis. For the longer term, I think freezing is very effective. I read somewhere that someone did an experiment and found that frozen coffee deteriorates in 90 days as coffee at room temp deteriorates in one day. Not sure about the method, but from my own experience and reading other's, freezing is very effective. Of course freezing under vacuum is better than freezing without vacuum, but I think the main benefit is the freezing itself, and if you pack tightly into a bag/jar, I am not sure how much vacuuming adds. Personally I freeze bigger quantities in vacuum bags, and smaller quantities in jam jars. For the shorter term, freezing is less convenient (for my, at least). Here the air is the main enemy, so getting rid of it helps. The problem is that every time we open the container we let new air inside. Single dose containers can help, but personally I haven't done it yet. Containers that push the air out (like the Airscape) might be better than nothing, but they let new air inside every time they are opened + they leave a lot of air in the space between the beans. Personally I have been using [Vacu vin containers](https://vacuvin.com/products/kitchen-tools/vacuum-container/) (suck out air with a manual pump) for over 20 years. I don't find it a hassle at all - it only takes a couple of seconds to use. I haven't done a comparison with the likes of Airscape, but common sense tells me it should be better.

@"Doram"#p770 Thank you for interesting dimensions to freezer storage. Tbh, I never thought of freezing the way you have thought of. Disposal of plastics - when the bag is unfrozen - is going to keep me away from vacuuming. I have used frozen beans for up to 4-5 months so far and did not find any noticeable deterioration in the beans including the aroma. I guess, sucking the air out and tightly packing it for freezer helps. I am good with the current practice, although I don’t mind freezing them as a 250g batch. The challenge with containers like airscape is repetitive opening and closing. I open at least 4 times a day for 6 cups of coffee. I think this where a single dosing method practiced by @"MediumRoastSteam"#51 helps. Edit: Have ordered some.

@"LMSC"#p772 What kind of bags do you use to freeze? I am thinking ziplock and elastic bands, but don't know if they are air tight enough.

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p774 I freeze the beans with the bag it gets delivered. Puncture a small hole, suck as much air out as possible, sticky tape the one-way valve and the punctured area and throw it in the freezer. It works for me even if I do not open the bag for months.

FWIW, I work away from home a lot and my wife only drinks two-three 10g shots per day. Normal usage the beans in a 250g sized Airscape don't live long enough to worry about staling. However, I have taken to putting beans at peak freshness into a number of small 20g and 50g plastic click-seal containers and thence to freezer.… My wife's taste buds kick mine to the kerb and she's very happy with the result. Appreciate everyone's different but it's working for us

@"CafeNoir"#p792 Are the containers densely packed? Sounds like one container is a day's beans. Seems to be the key to what works best for storage.

Yes, there's no space for another bean, figure minimise air as best I can, if it was longer term than 1-2 weeks, I'd be investing in a heat sealing device and a supply of little bags.

Airscape issues and single dosing

Doram

PortafilterProcrastinator Having been away this weekend with no fresh coffee and two ill/ teething children I drank a lot of instant (that ‘posh’ power stuff in a tin).

My v60 this morning tastes absolutely delicious!

First coffee after a time away always tastes great - it refreshes the numbness we get from getting too used to good stuff, so taking a break just makes it good again. Works with other things as well. :)

Systemic

Having played around with freezing unopened bags and taping over the one way valve, moved on to vac packing and am very pleased with the results. Vac in 250grm packs and use Airscape containers for beans I have on the go - usually two to three varieties at any one time. Have had some Brazilian strawberry and cream beans recently with the beans giving off a distinct strawberry note. Opening a vac bag five or six weeks later and the first thing that stands out is the strawberry notes.

LMSC

DavecUK Your container for a daily dose looks different. It seems to be similar to a coffee vac, although smaller in size. 😊

DavecUK

LMSC TGhey are called Tightvac containers. A young lady at Host 2019 Milan was handing them out as freebies. I blagged 7 😁

I think they are also called a coffeevac

https://www.tightvac.com/products/tv0-vitavac

When I spoke to the company guy, they are more intended for purchase in the 500s or thousands as a promotional thing…or that was their thinking at the time. In bulk, I think they were quite cheap to purchase.

LMSC

DavecUK

These little ones are expensive costing £7-£8 a pop!

-Mac

DavecUK I think they are also called a coffeevac

https://www.tightvac.com/products/tv0-vitavac

When I spoke to the company guy, they are more intended for purchase in the 500s or thousands as a promotional thing…or that was their thinking at the time. In bulk, I think they were quite cheap to purchase.

Group buy, everyone? 😁

DavecUK

LMSC I think the price for 1000 was a lot cheaper

A 4 pack is 20 usd

Or here

https://www.tightvacukdirect.co.uk/Solid_Base_VitaVacs_-_006ltr20g/p1781886_8112839.aspx

DavecUK

or perhaps these if they are airtight, can keep in freezer and just take out 1 days worth at a time the night before.

LMSC

DavecUK Thanks Dave. I will take a look.

At the moment, we have bottled one-day worth of coffee (5 of them), each weighing 96g each in the freezer. We plan to take it out overnight for the next day. Let’s see how it goes.

Stuck a sticky tape on top of the valve. Need to grab a glue to stick the one-way valve fully.

Doram

These were reduced to clear at Sainsburys (£0.75 for a pack of two). I think they are 40ml, so only take ~15g when they are packed, but this is my current dose so they are fine. TBH I don’t think I will go the single dose route. The main benefit for me seems to be minimising the opening of the larger container, but I use a vacuum one so I’m not sure if it will make much difference. Anyway, I now have them so trying to use and see what happens.

LMSC

Doram I have some single dose jars in the post for decaf and light roasts. However, a single day worth of beans in that Jam Jar is doing a good job so far. It holds ~100g. I remove a jar overnight from the freezer for the next day use.

Hotmetal

Doram I use those Sainsburys ones for my Aeropress when travelling. They do indeed take about 15g, perfect for AP. I weigh them out on my black mirrors so they’re all equal, then it’s just tip into the Aergrind and off you go.

Home use, I put about 150g+ in the hopper and once a kilo bag is open I put the rest into an Airscape. It gets opened maybe 4-5x before they’re all done.

I’m sure it could be optimised if I had bought 2-3 smaller airscapes but they’re expensive. I would do if I hadn’t already bought the big one. I do have a smaller clear plastic knockoff Airscape type thing I found in TK Maxx that holds maybe 300g which doesn’t really give you the same feeling of quality and is not light proof, but maybe better than opening the big one as often. Not entirely sure I could taste the difference in a blind test though tbh.

Pompeyexile

I’ve been wondering. For ages now when I get a bag of beans I weight them out into portions and freeze them and only get them out when I need them and grind them straight from the freezer…is this wrong? Does it effect the flavour? Is this why I get espresso tasting like a bitter old man sucking a lemon?

DavecUK

Pompeyexile I’ve been wondering. For ages now when I get a bag of beans I weight them out into portions and freeze them and only get them out when I need them and grind them straight from the freezer…is this wrong? Does it effect the flavour? Is this why I get espresso tasting like a bitter old man sucking a lemon?

I think that may well be a valid method…people do grind straight from the freezer. The only thing I would be concerned about is moist warm air condensing water onto the beans in some way affecting grind, burrs (corrosion), clumping. My plan was to remove the whole days worth in the morning.

Pompeyexile

Ah now that is interesting. To test out the ROK grinder earlier, I took out a small pot of non descript beans (I think my other half got them from CostCo about two years ago thinking it was a good idea because it said organic on the bag) from the freezer, which had been in there some time. As you say, within seconds of opening them the warm air caused a small amount of condensation to cling to the pot and the beans. I ground them and they came out fluffy no clumps and the grinder seemd very clean with virtually no residue left behind.

Just a thought. Did the moisture forming on the beans have the same effect as the method (shown to be recommended by ROK themselves in a video) where people say to stop beans from suffering from excessive static, dipping a spoon or fork in water and then giving the beans a stir with it before you grind?

Got to admit, I’ve never tried it with my Brasilia which does suffer from a small amount of static. Maybe I should.

wormpurple

James Hoffman did some testing with frozen (and heated) beans. He found that grinding frozen beans creates more fines.

wormpurple

Up to now, I’ve been using a Mazzer Mini, so single dosing hasn’t been a practical option. However, now that my Lagom P-64 is on the way, I’ve been looking more single dose storage.

I was inspired by a comment from DavecUK, many moons ago on The Other Place, suggesting the use of a syringe. It allows you to eliminate any air, other than that between the beans. Also, as the beans degass, the plunger can move to accommodate the extra pressure. If that’s not sufficient, you can also buy one-way valves that screw onto the end relatively cheaply.

I paid £9.99 to 25×60ml syringes and £14.59 for 140 coloured screw-on caps. Having different coloured caps allows me to colour code different beans. It’s hardly a looker, but cheap and hopefully effective.

You want Luer Lock syringes, as these have a standard male thread. Syringes with a slip-on cap are less likely to cope with degassing.

Coffee Syringe

The grey thing in the background is a 3D printed stand for filling.

DavecUK

It looks like it just eliminates all the head space and that seemed to be a good thing….which was my thinking at the time. I’ll be very interested to hear how it pans out.

pete10uk

-Mac I bought one last week on the back of this thread. Not really impressed with it, made out of brittle plastic and the word vac is misleading, there is no vacuum, it is just an air seal, which a jam jar can achieve.

tompoland

Air is the biggest enemy and then light. At least that what I’ve consistently read. I vacuum seal 18g doses. The plastic pouches are food safe and I take them to the local supermarket where there is a special recycling center for food plastics.

Initially I froze the pouches after freezing and calculated that they would easily stay in prime condition for five months.

But my batches rarely last more than 3 weeks and so I have stopped freezing them and simply rely on the vacuum seal and storage in a small carton. Works well.

My problem with airscape type systems is that every time it is opened to grab some beans, fresh air goes in. I’m quite sure its not a problem over a few days and I’m equally convinced, after much testing, that it is an issue over a few weeks.

DavecUK

tompoland My problem with airscape type systems is that every time it is opened to grab some beans, fresh air goes in. I’m quite sure its not a problem over a few days and I’m equally convinced, after much testing, that it is an issue over a few weeks.

I felt the same which is why in Dec 2019 I started decanting stuff into 18g tightvacs, so I didn’t have to open the airscape so often…it helps a lot.

LMSC

DavecUK tightvacs

Group buy, if they offer a good deal.

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