Niche Zero - One Year in Review

hthec

CoyoteOldMan video comments

😂 I spent way too long scrolling and still can’t find it

CoyoteOldMan

I suspect I was right… given there is a rather pointed comment by DaveC which is beautifully ignored by the Artists.

I wouldn’t waste 13 minutes watching the video, at least if you are interested in knowing something other than “it has a multi-coloured timber wrap” (which is an effective way of using cheaper timber scraps).

hthec

@CoyoteOldMan ah silly me, I was actually looking in the comments of that 80s song 🤣 thought you meant they were plugging their video review in the comments section of other videos! I have seen that verve review video a few weeks back. Thought of posting it here but Dave did say he was struggling with the confidentiality issu Guess I shouldn’t have worried…

CoyoteOldMan

hthec Whoops - sorry, should have been clearer. It’s just that in my mind the word ‘duel’ is indelibly associated to that song!

audiomacgyver

A few things have come to mind, but mostly I’m going to sit back and wait for the next few grinders that he reviews and how he compares them to the Niche. Then see if there is anything to read between the lines on who makes the grinder and how / if he compares them to the Niche.

I think he has done a remarkable job getting folks talking about him a year and a day after getting a grinder to review.

dutchy101

He also refers to the Niche in his DF64 review, his comments seem quite consistent on the Niche between both videos. Think he clearly prefers flat burr grinders.

ChristosC

I think it is obvious that many ‘content creators’ have (often undisclosed) financial interests and conflicts, and I am sure that the same applies to LH- his ‘admiration’ for some Sage products is conspicuous. Credibility aside, I think that he is a mediocre Youtuber, mainly because of his communication style and poor articulation which makes it difficult for me to enjoy any of his videos (although he seems to have made some progress since he first started uploading content).

Irrespective of that, what I find funny is that he struck a particular nerve here with his Niche review. It is fair to say that many people have a soft spot for the specific grinder, either because it is a British success story and people have been involved in its development, or because they own it (myself included as of last week), or simply because they consider it a great grinder totally worth its money. Not sure that LH would trigger such a debate with any other review..

Cuprajake

I’d say more Joe public and entry level people have the niche so it stands to reason he will get more of a reaction,

But you’d also get a reaction if he did the same saying an ek43 was shite.

I get polished video get good following but it’s all just opinion as every tongue is different

Cuprajake

Even hoons coffee has gone like that, getting all the new gadgets.

LMSC

A few observations after watching LH’s review of DF64.

He struggled to recommend the grinder; he did but listed a lot of negatives.
As far as the espresso shot is concerned, the shot was probably sour (he said astringent) and under extracted. He was expecting stone fruit notes but got citrus and lemon.
He still said it is good for light roast 🤔
In a nutshell, it wasn’t a clear endorsement of Solo.
He was nevertheless consistent that he, personally, doesn’t prefer Niche.

CafeNoir

Cuprajake I believe it’s probably more to do with getting a better “outcome” with the YouTube algorithm’s than presenting a balanced, properly researched review.

It’s why for me most YouTube stuff is infotainment, it’s not common to find much coffee stuff like DaveC’s work which I find far more interesting

tompoland

drdre89 summed it up perfectly. To me, the NZ is the best combination of efficiency and effectiveness, the latter being relative to the flavor I’m after.

whinmoor85

I think Lance’s review was fair and honest. The Niche has a good workflow but I’ve always found the filter coffee from it lacks clarity, perfectly usable though.

Slightly amusing watching people get offended over a product review. There was a similar thread a while back on CFUK about James Hoffmann with the usual ’you can’t trust him because he gets Patreon and YouTube ad money’ etc.

The only thing I’d add is - just because someone isn’t paid for a review, doesn’t mean they’re free of ‘bias’. I’d take every review whether it’s done by a YouTuber/blogger/home enthusiast on it’s own merits.

Cuprajake

I’d say that’s true with most if not all social media. It’s there in the end to separate us from our cash😂

Never got why people get so defensive over something they have bought, if I spend good money and something is shite, I will let you know

LMSC

I haven’t owned Niche. Generally, it’s reported it’s not great for filter or light roast. The latter is more of flat vs conical in the clarity vs body (texture) space.

@MWJB, you have been using Niche for a long time mostly for brews/pour overs. I also think you drink light to medium. Could you share your experience and how you see the NZ in the case light, medium light, clarity vs body, …. please ?

We all value your experience and extensive knowledge. Please chip in. Thx

MWJB

LMSC

I use my Niche mostly, yes I drink light roasts only (or would if I could be sure what I ordered was actually light).

I have no idea what most people are talking about in these ‘grinder wars’.

I also have no idea why Lance previously said the Niche was better than a Sette in taste testing, but now says that the Sette has a narrower distribution. Either distribution is not the be all & end all, or he just did a complete 180.

My Sette made nice espresso, but was not acceptable for filter. Measurably, it had the widest distribution I have seen from any grinder I have owned (this didn’t make it bad in terms of intended purpose, I would no doubt still be using it… if it worked & I bought it a year after getting my Niche).

I tried the Niche prototype, I had previously sold my Rocky because it was too needy in terms of purging & sweeping. I had no intention of ever owning another electric grinder again but the Niche offered the high dose consistency (with no puffing of bellows, nor sweeping) of a hand grinder without the arm work (Mark Prince AKA Coffeegeek defined a “zero retention grinder” as a grinder that could dose to within +/-0.5g, the Niche does this, it is not the only one, but there weren’t a lot of others in electric grinders when it was conceived).

The hype, for me, was simply that here is a grinder that grinds…you weigh the beans in, you get a consistent dose out, you don’t think about/fret over what your grinder is doing…you just get on with making coffee. I don’t recall any hype/overhype at the time it came out (outside of freshness/consistency of dose & retention claims), just an easy to use grinder with commercial burrs at ⅓ the price of its closest relative.

The grind consistency of the Niche Zero is perfectly normal, not poor, nor wide/abnormal/bad.

Msmk0

I have the Niche for 2 years now and with the ACS EVO Leva you can use light roasts as much as you want… just tweaking the PIDs. Also I think Niche grinder is awesome for lever machines, since it’s fines helps with the extraction style lever pressure profiles applies and the higher water flow that usually they have.

For pour over, otherwise I find it always a passable grinder… clogging filters most of the time (used many different brands, with similar results).

Recently got a Fellow Ode and got Gorilla burrs in it, and V60 are next level. Still with some good sweetness and body, but clearer and more balanced… (and an obvious improvement on the clogging thing).

Also tried some espresso with the Ode and the Gorillas, and being also really tasty and notes appearing more clear… Niche still wins.

So, all of this is also to point out that grinders also have to be paired with a machine, and maybe pulling a standard shot with a Sage is not the best for the type of grinding a Niche delivers. I’m pretty sure playing with that Sage PiD, preinfusion parameters and some pro-barista mambo-jambo you can have a really good light roast espresso.

gotters

another semi negative review from April coffee - saying it produces a lot of fines and uneven particle size. Though he never says compared to what exactly.

MWJB

gotters

Ignore anyone who talks about “fines” & “uneven particle size”.

You can only consider fines relative to the rest of the distribution, which no one shows any interest in. The best way to reduce the small bits in your grind is to go coarser. You don’t have any way of steering the distribution when adjusting a grinder, you can only go coarser/finer.

The Niche isn’t magic, it doesn’t do anything hitherto unseen in terms of grind distribution, it is typical/normal…as most grinders are.

A normal grind distribution of say 500um average will have a couple of % over 1mm, a couple of % under 250um. That would be considered ‘even’ in grinder terms…despite that to the eye/measurement is not even and no burr grinder is. Some are tighter (EK, Baratza Vario/Forte with Ditting burrs, OE Apex), some are wider (Porlex, De Longhi KG79, Zassenhaus grinders with wobbly burrs) but in brew quality is not so clear cut.

He is right though that the standard grind scale markings are too fine at 50 for a lot of drip brewing. Easily fixed with another dot.

But you shouldn’t be setting a grinder by the average grind size anyway, grind based on the smaller end that gives you the extractions you want, that taste good. If this is coarser than another grinder, slow down the pour.

Rob1

Before I waste any of my life watching these ‘reviews’ can somebody answer one question:

Did they dial the grinder in the produce the best shot, or did they arbitrarily decide on a ratio and adjust the grinder to produce it in a certain time, and then decide to make some judgement about the grinder?

dfk41

Rpm 1500 about………quality research! Nor has he calibrated it!

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