LMSC thanks for the advice as always! I am still exploring about beans. The lightest I have tried is medium. So far, I love the Chatswood from Rave which is dark roast. But I also enjoyed the chocolate Blend and Dock blend which I think is medium roast. Having seems so many experts here opt for light roast, I would love to explore that once I have more skill to dial it that. (Btw, what’s your pick on light roast beans? I heard good thing on Tim Wendelboe but they are not in U.K.)

yes. The soreness came faster than expected. I now changed using the non sore hand to hold the container. Niche is nice but I am thinking to invest a bit more to my end game (I think I will never spend 2000+ for a grinder). But I am still thinking as Niche sounds to be extremely capable for its price.

      Knluk I now changed using the non sore hand to hold the container.

      I find myself swapping hand after every minute of grinding - then again, I’m reasonably ambidextrous.

          CoyoteOldMan swapping hand

          Same here, which is easier if medium and above. :-)

            I exchanged email with Lyn workshop on the HG1 Prime and found out they are in summer break thus cannot fulfil order. That allows me more time to think about it:

            • HG1P vs NZ - I suspects that there is no difference in taste (I can tell). Although I believe my wrist will be okay with the HG1P as I don’t have to hold it while turning the handle, the NZ will be risk free on this aspect. So, what else the HG1P, which costs 2x more, brings me will be built, beauty, and longevity. Sadly, to me all are as important as the cost and ease to work with. Any thoughts? Maybe someone can tell me once I get I electric grinder, I will not look back? Or NZ actually looks great in real life? Or nothing beats seeing a sexy HG on worktop and it will last 50yrs? Just need some help to make a decision without regret.
            • If the quality in cup between the above two is insignificant, should I save up for the MC4 or Lagom P64? Would like to avoiding getting into the diminishing of return though. Seems I am banning this option by myself.
            • For the HG1P, I forgot whether I read it from here of the other forum, someone had very bad experience with Craig (and a few other brands). Usually I would treat it as a single incident and won’t focus on it. But the words used are strong. And he declared he would never do business with him. Did I miss anything alarming?

            Thanks for input.

              Knluk My 2 cents - based on 2 hours in which I’ve had a Niche in the house, and a fair amount of experience with audio gear (which seems to follow rather similar ‘rules’ to coffee gear):

              Longevity - unless you plan to use the Niche ‘semi-industrially’, that thing is a) built like a small tank and b) with ease of maintenance in mind. Yes, there is less to go wrong in a hand grinder, and even just for that reason the Weber will outlast the Niche, but unless you truly plan on leaving your coffee dinasty a heirloom… little to choose from.
              Build - I haven’t seen anything to suggest that the quality of design and assembly in the Niche is sub-par. Will it be the same as a super-duper hand-built grinder? I don’t know, but the few measurements I’ve seen done on Weber stuff don’t indicate that they are actually engineered and built (rather than finished) better than well-built mass-assembly products (like my Mazzer or Ceado, or indeed the Niche).
              Beauty - in the eye of the beholder. The Niche is significantly less conspicuous… which, depending on what you (and your family) like, may actually be better than the in-your-face naked engineering of the Weber. If you allow me an architectural comparison, which one is more beautiful:

              I can’t comment on cup quality, as I haven’t tried anything from a Weber, but I think with either of these (or the Kafatek, or the Lagom) you are very much on a near-flat spend-vs.-taste part of the curve. It may be more a question of what you enjoy in coffee and what type of coffee you drink, rather than ‘absolute’ improvement.

              Re: the nastiness of dealing with Weber, again, no direct experience. I have read the same posts as you have (probably), and there were screenshots of messages that definitely weren’t pleasant. At the very least that would make me very wary. Then again, one of the best restaurants I know is managed by a guy who can be quite unpleasant to deal with, but once you understand where he’s coming from, and what “your” part of the bargain as a customer is, everything works brilliantly.

                  Knluk adding to Coyote’s post, there is a difference in the cup. I think its quite marked.

                  With the 83mm Mazzer Robur conical burrs (HG1P) I taste what I describe as more distinctive coffe-chocolate-nut flavor. With the 63mm Mazzer Kony conical burrs it’s just coffee-chocolate. Both delicious.

                  My tastes buds are nothing to write home about so if I can taste the difference, most will.

                  Hard to beat the Niche for workflow. Hard to beat the HG1P for presence.

                  Most of us would be delighted with either grinder.

                      CoyoteOldMan thanks for the inputs. Very helpful.

                      Re the perceived build quality, I think it is due to the plastic parts and body of Niche. For the look, I should admit that when I first saw a NZ in pic, I was impressed by its beauty. But then it was flooded in so many setup in saw online and then one day I saw the Weber and I thought it was something unique. I like the very raw appearance of Weber and under the influence of the praise of many high end prosumers, my interest on it slowly built up. Partly an educated taste and partly I prefer something more simple and traditional than modern/cyber.

                      I really like the architecture analogy. I do agree that Niche may probably more appealing to non coffee people too. Thanks for sharing that

                        tompoland Thanks. Honestly, I am trying to justify the choice of the HG1P. I think NZ will be good enough for taste, maybe way more than good enough actually. So the improvement from HG1P may be marginally better only(?)

                        Is it correct to understand that the HG1P/ hand grinder is easier to maintain than NZ/ electric grinder because of less (motorised) parts? Is HG1P also more mod-able eg changing to SSP burr?

                            Knluk On the maintenance - no, I wouldn’t say so. Other than cleaning, there is very little maintenance needed, and both are easy to clean. The motor and the electronics on the Niche are zero maintenance… until they break. Then it’s a replacement.

                            The other consideration, thinking of the cost/availability of the Weber and that Niches are still reselling easily for very close to their “new” price, is to get a Niche and resell it a few weeks/months/years later if you feel you are lacking “something” (be it only fulfilling your desire to have a Weber).

                              Agree re maintenance. And re SSP, have not tried them but based on user reports I don’t think I’d notice a difference in the cup,

                              CoyoteOldMan thanks. I read that before. Good info. Almost pulled the trigger on Niche today. But thought maybe I can chat it through with you and see your grinder of choice before doing so :)

                                  Interesting read, this thread.

                                  My only contribution is that while I’m tempted by hand grinders, all I have to do to dispel the temptation is to watch a vid (like this one) on what’s involved in using them, the effort, the physicality. To be clear, with bone cancer in my shoulders, even hand tamping requires gritting my teeth and enduring the pain. Grinding by hand? Thanks, but nope. A few years ago, had I thought of it, I’d have been all over this like flies on a …. erm, I won’t complete that analogy. suffice to say, for me, it (unfortunately) just ain’t an option.

                                  However much I’m tempted, it’d be money wasted, I’ll just have to get my gear fix on hand grinders vicariously. So like I said, good read, this thread. :D

                                    Oh, and I’m not entirely convinced by that vid’s testing methodology. Someone (Stevebee I think) pointed out that the settings seemed to be aimed at a theoretical 20g / 2:1 / 27-30 sec target, which i fine for a starting point but surely, best tasting cup would be better, especially if you then proceed to judge which grinder performed in what way by the taste.

                                    If grinder X is, for instance, overly bright, what hapens if you change your criteria for time, ratio etc? And, of course, it all changes ith a different coffee. And, the whole thing rests one one person’s tasting of a very particular configuration whereas we all both taste differently, and prefer different tastes.

                                    His question was, can hand grinders produce good espresso? Self-evidently, from just seeing comments here, yes. But which is best, or best at a given price point, or vest given that the buyer likes this type of taste, or that? Not so much.

                                    The video seemed to spend about 2/3rds of the time demonstrating dialing in, which is fine if it’s a dialing in test, but a bit beside the point for the question he was trying to answer.