ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva

LMSC

Rob1 Interesting! Thank you. 😊

Are the following correct, for the above data points provided by Daniel?

1: The boiler will not scale as long as the Hardness (71.4 mg/l) is less than the Max Hardness Allowed (71.5 mg/l)?

But, as we steam, the minerals are going to be deposited.

2: Does the boiler get 18.1 mg/l of scale for every L we add subsequently? I don’t think it is a one-off as long as the hardness exceeds the max hardness allowed?

SebH

DavecUK

Hmmm, just found out that I did not receive the superior vacuum breaker either.

Let’s hope that they will keep the promise and send them out

Cuprajake

i wouldn’t worry, they rarely fail, my ‘cheap’ londinium one was 8yrs old when i decided to change it, and was fine

danielpugh

thanks @LMSC and @Rob1 - delayed doing anything today by work. An osmosis solution seems best. Stuck at this point at what to get as osmio zero is now super expensive compared to even 6 months ago and the same price as a plumbed in solution. Either have to get a waste water pipe in without destroying the walls/kitchen (or for a secondhand osimio zero to become available somewhere). In the meantime the evo is turned off until i can descale/replumb and be sure of the water…

LMSC

danielpugh How far the machine is from the kitchen sink ? Is it a new kitchen ?

1: If a professional drilling is required on the work top (especially granite or something similar or a new kitchen), I will not even consider it.

2: See if you can plumb through the wall - do you have tiles on the wall?

3: Another choice is utility - if it is feasible.

4: Zero is the best compromise as we didn’t want to break the break the kitchen. Furthermore, you also need to consider a low alkalinity in RO water. It can be very low; you may have to top up with bicarb before you feed the machines. This will be a challenge if you are plumbing.

Osmio is expensive; compared to the mess and the issues water can create on expensive machines like our Evo, it’s worth paying IMHO.

Cuprajake

im lucky,

i make my ro at work, and then bring it home,

if you have a garage you can make it in there, different machines give different rates, but some for every 1litre of good water was 3 to 4l of bad, so bare in mind if on a meter.

the osmio replaces the kettle too, so up selling point to the mrs haha

LMSC

Cuprajake osmio replaces the kettle too, so up selling point to the mrs haha

Absolutely. I believe most of the members would vouchsafe this Jake!

My wife and daughter rolled their eyes and raised the eye brows. A month later, they are full converts; my wife’s persistent stomach troubles vanished, we lost some weight, the 2L kettle disappeared the day it got delivered, the zero water is used for all purposes including cooking.

The last 1L water isn’t wasted; we use it for washing, cleaning and watering plants.

danielpugh

Thanks @LMSC getting to existing drain is nigh impossible. Easier to go straight out through a wall. I was thinking that alkalinity would be fixed by remineralisation filter(?). If I could sort drainage then the water drop G2 looks promising. All of a bit of a gamble, but quite simple and cheap to operate assuming it works. Seems quite a popular option in the states albeit not necessarily for espresso..
On the other hand osmio zero has its own plus points but negatives are more expensive up-front and to run.

Kicking myself for not having got one last year when they had the forum offer. Was Saving to pay for a lovely new espresso machine at the time (doh ;-)

LMSC

danielpugh alkalinity would be fixed by remineralisation filter(?)

Not necessarily. Depending on where you are. It can also vary by season. I have seen alkalinity vary between about 40 mg/l in Aug - Sep last year and currently at about 18 mg/l, which is on the lower side.

DenisS

Water for coffee needs to have mineral in it for full taste.

If you will use low ppm water that is just to protect a machine, not to get the max out of your beans. There are minerals that dont scale, or scale less.

My water for ACS was 30-35ppm baking soda (Na) and 70-100 ppm epsom salt (Mg). Total 80-120 ppm. No Calcium.

My tap water has 110 ppm total with 60-70% Ca, that scales and ruins machines fast.

My espresso water is made out of 0 ppm water obstained with a zero water jug.

Cuprajake

I think that Dr Pavlis has made the argument that since coffee is loaded with magnesium, and the magnesium in the input brew water is a tiny fraction of what the coffee itself puts into the brew, we may be wasting time fussing over how much Ca and Mg is in our brew water.

Taken from hb forum

LMSC

Cuprajake Dr Pavlis

Jake, is there an article of Dr Pavlis we can read please ?

DenisS

Cuprajake

I think I will trust my side by side taste comparison and go with that, over what one guy did test over who knows what roast level and what he understands by coffee.

Cuprajake

Theres loads. Its just better to google his name and alot on homebarista will come up.

Cuprajake

DenisS

Thats entirely up to you, i suppose for you now it makes no difference as your brewing pour over, and not having a machine.

Us who have machines have to some te compromise a tad, but dr pavlis finding were across different beans from reading. Each to their own

Cuprajake

https://www.home-barista.com/water/1977-la-pavoni-europiccola-with-green-deposits-scale-t38090.html

Thats part of it

LMSC

Thank you Jake.

DenisS

Cuprajake

Water matters no matter what you use it for when preparing coffee, it doesn’t matter if it’s a espresso machine or a brew. I compared several times with many friends so I’m not byased, 0 ppm water to 50 ppm water to 100ppm water to tap water to custom made water.

Custom made water for coffee always wins. Take for example TWW (third wave water) has ~188ppm (23ppm Calcium, 17 ppm Na, 140 ppm Mg) and it’s used by the top elites in the world, for competing, for coffee shops for brewing.

But be free to do anything you want, again you can use a 50ppm water total and the machine will run for 10 years with no scale, but that doesnt mean the taste is the best with that setup, and espresso is all about taste not protecting a stupid machine.

Cuprajake

https://www.home-barista.com/water/question-about-water-hardness-and-scale-buildup-t42007-30.html and the other

LMSC

Cuprajake Good information for week end reading. Thx.

One question re-your potassium bicarb (PB) dosage.

Given your 10g on 1L of RO and 10ml concentrate on 1L means 100mg/l of PB. This translates to approx 69mg/l alkalinity. Is that right ? If yes, is it not on the higher side? Thx

Cuprajake

Off top of my head im not sure without going back through some old notes,

Its sometimes hard because americans talk in gallons which are different uk to us

From memory they were using 38ml to a us gallon

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