ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva

dfk41

Adrianmsmith I think it is a Londinium thing. The LR24 can only adjust one thing, via an ap…..the preinfusion, therefore is it any wonder that they make such a big thing of it? It has been shown many times that water temperature and control of group head temperature have a far bigger contribution that pre-infusion pressure. If I remember correctly, the maximum the LR24 can go up to is 6………I remember back in the early days of the L!, Londinium allegedly conducted some tests where they put two springs in……the outcome was that this had an adverse effect by absolutely destroying the puck and was not to be done……..it had absolutely nothing to do with the fact you could tip the machine over without even trying……can you imagine the flex on a Londinium machine with two commercial springs……LOL

BillyG

dfk41

Bingo, excellent deduction!

My previous machine was a LR24. I know the history here, and didn’t want to even mention this.

My other lever is a Strietman CT2.

Paolo_Cortese

I think that we should calm down a bit. Everyone can make and drink whatever he want, based on their own experience and taste. The problem of the timer on this machine it’s based on a simple factor. With higher preinfusion when the pressure it’s reached and we wait that the pressure drop a bit of course the pump start to rise the pressure to the correct setting, of course the system it’s small and the pump it’s powerful and of course can easily go over the setting point and due of closer pressure to switch between pre and brew, it start. In the beginning we have set the switch point at 7,5 bars but of fact that some people use a lighter spring to reach max 8 bars sometimes the switch between pre and brew never happen that’s why we reduced to 6,8 but now if you set to high can start even with the lever in a lower position. Of course we try to fix everything but sometimes it’s not easy. There is already a delay before the switch but probably too low but probably too long someone can complain the delay etc. We will try to fix this problem as well as soon as we have a time to do that in a right way.

MediumRoastSteam

Paolo_Cortese I think that we should calm down a bit

Sorry I couldn’t stop thinking of what this triggered in my memory… Good old British politics…

(just a bit of humour, totally unrelated to to the machine) - and not a direct reply to Paolo either.

BillyG

Paolo_Cortese

Than you Paolo! I will try to change preinfuion pressure and see how things go.

If a software change is possible in the future, that would be appreciated. I get the sense that no matter what, I prefer a finer grind with light roasts than most others do, which could still be an issue without a software change. I know the machine can handle it, it’s very robust and I am making amazingly delicious espresso!

Thank you for your attention and help!

DavecUK

I spoke to Paolo today, he is looking to make a software change to the timer unit that can be downloaded and applied (for those who want to, along the idea I expressed above, where you could lengthen the time between detection of a high pressure spike and it starting the brew timer (plus stopping the preinfusion timer).

This would stop any inevitable overshoots at higher pressures and tight grinds prematurely starting the shot timer. The effects of lengthening this time is (just made up extreme examples below):

If it is an overshoot and you lengthen the time say to 3 seconds, and the preinfusion is longer than 3 seconds = no implication, everything will work normally, all times recorded will be correct
If it is an overshoot and you lengthen the time say to 3 seconds, and the preinfusion is less than 2 seconds = Preinfusion time will be recorded as longer, shot time will be recorded as shorter
If the overshoot is because the grind is so tight and it takes too long (beyond what the delay time can be set to) for the pressure to come down…the machine will never shot the brew timer and the shot would have to be ended manually

So there is a potentially a software “fix”, but it cannot cater for all situations…nothing can.

BillyG

DavecUK

Thank you Dave! These proposed changes would be very much appreciated!

I will continue to experiment with preinfusion and grind. I love this machine, and I apologize if I’ve offended anyone. I am making delicious espresso, enjoying the process, and it looks fantastic :)

Thanks again, Billy

BillyG

Cuprajake

No offense meant, this was a poor attempt at humor and to show that I’m similar to you, deep down the espresso rabbit hole and spending too much money on new equipment ;) I’m trying to use a lot of smileys and saying thanks a lot but my responses aren’t going over very well. I do appreciate all of the advice.

BillyG

LMSC

Yes, I am drinking the espresso, swapping cups, then I drink what comes out after my shot. Basically the leftovers are like drinking a coffee version of the delicious espresso I just pulled. When I first went to a lever, dumping the leftovers seemed like such a waste so I tasted it! Haha!

And I’m not trying to be unkind, apologies! I am willing to try different techniques. Initially I wanted to see if anyone else had experienced this, and to see what Dave had to say. I had family at my home yesterday so I couldn’t invest too much time in replying and experimenting. I do appreciate all of the replies

BillyG

Adrianmsmith

I do know about Jake. The count of my equipment was a misunderstood attempt to show that I, like he, spend too much money on this equipment, to be a little humorous, and to show that I’m not completely new to this game. I failed :/

I do appreciate all of the advice! No offense intended.

Adrianmsmith

@BillyG

Genuine question, not a dig:

Why do you need or want to use 72 psi for pre infusion. What will you gain. What is the difference to pre infusion at 29 or 43 psi. I’m using psi to demonstrate the pressure as 2, 3 or 5 bars although the same doesn’t sound as high!!

To me, preinfusion is pre wetting the coffee to saturate and settle it prior to extraction pressure being used.

The machine works great and I’ve used it at 2, 3, 4 bars without issue whilst experimenting. Ive settled at just over 2 bars for day to day use.

Please explain The advantage of 5 bars preinfusion.

BillyG

Adrianmsmith

As deduced above by dfk41, my previous lever was an R24. Without being able to have as much control with that machine, I found my best espresso with a prefinfusion at 5bar.

I am learning and willing to experiment with all of the new variables now available to me. Unfortunately, I get up very early for work during the week so I won’t get to play much until the next week end. I lowered the preinfusion to 3 for tomorrow’s pull!

Inspirado

BillyG

I love those espresso cups - where perchance did you get them?

BillyG

Inspirado

Thank you, as do I! They are from www.bisqit.store

And they sell out in the blink of an eye. She just released a new, beautiful batch last week and I completely missed it. She does have a couple from her smoke collection available as of now.

Adrianmsmith

BillyG

Thanks. You will have a great time now you know it’s not broken 😁

Plenty to discover. In car terms you’ve sold the reliant robin and jumped straight in to a shiny new Bentley 🫣

Hope you like it as much as I do mine…. (The ACS Evo that is, not the Bentley!!)

DavecUK

BillyG As deduced above by dfk41, my previous lever was an R24. Without being able to have as much control with that machine, I found my best espresso with a prefinfusion at 5bar.

You are going to find this machine is in a different league to the LR24.

Pressure profiles are very different with the pressure not dropping off massively in the later portions of the shot
You actually know what pressures and when, you can see it
Temperature management is not only excellent, but visible , very controllable and consistent

Things are not hidden from you, independent heaters ensure each system is separate and steaming/brewing don’t affect each other. No thermosyphon locks, fast warmup etc..

One of the biggest things though is preinfusion. It’s all Londinium had, so they gave it mythical properties:

It massively changes the flavour of the shot - how?
you can change the temperature of a shot - how??? and if it was possible which it’s not, what to from what?

A lot of the issues around preinfusion was because Londiniums profile loses so much pressure so quickly during the shot. Anything above 3 bar, really isn’t preinfusion and if it’s flavour you want, the LSM lever profile and group gives you that in spades. In fact Reiss and his supporters created many myths about the machine.

To me it’s a mystery why a machine like the LR24 costs as much as an Evo2, when it has a significantly lower build cost. Even the lever group used costs around 50% of what the ACS group costs.

So to extend the car analogy, you were driving a family hatchback offroad in wet weather and had to drive it a certain way. Now you have a proper 4×4 and can drive where and as you should be able to. Lower your PI down to 2 bar, try and work from around 2-3 bar for best results. Use the temperature capabilities to begin to bring life to your shots and trust the excellent profile and deeper pucks of the LSM clone groups..

Inspirado

BillyG

Thank you! I’ll try not to compete with you for future drops 😉😉

BillyG

Inspirado

You’re welcome! I highly recommend the cups with a matte finish on the outside. That is what you see on top of my machine.

No worries, we can share ;) I would like to get one of her Jupiter series someday. I have to say that her cups are my absolute favorite of all the cups I’ve ever had.

BillyG

Adrianmsmith

Thanks for the advice! And yes, I am doing more experimenting with different settings, and things are working much better and tasting delicious! Plus it looks fantastic on my counter!

I hate to disparage any product, but yes, I am very pleased to be in possession of the Evo now!!!

BillyG

DavecUK

Thank you Dave, I appreciate all of this information!

And of course you, @Paolo_Cortese , @dfk41 , @Cuprajake , @Adrianmsmith , and everyone else who offered advice, you were all spot on.

I changed my group and brew temps as @Cuprajake suggested. Based on @dfk41 deducing my R24 experience, and having only grind and preinfusion as variables with that machine, lowered my preinfusion to 3bar this morning. With the dosing system set to manual, I pulled two amazing shots today, without any issues! As a matter of fact I have a single origin Kenyan flowing into my brain as I type, which was the best shot I’ve made in as long as I can remember. I can’t wait to experiment even more!

As I stated above, I hate to disparage any machine or anyone, but I’m very happy having moved on from my previous machine.

Thanks to everyone in this community for getting me on the right track, it’s very much appreciated!

Oh, @Paolo_Cortese , please don’t pursue further programming of the dosing system due to my errors. I appreciate the gesture, and apologize for creating more work for you. Your and Dave’s Evo is a dream!

Thanks to all! Billy

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