ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva

DavecUK

Eiffel Does that mean that one needs to change the default setting for the steam boiler, taking B down from its defaut 5 to 0 ?

Yes, because why have the PID cutting the power when the machine gets near the set point. The small overshoot that will result, shouldn’t pop the safety valve, because that’s good to 2.5 bar or almost 140C

LMSC

DavecUK Eiffel

While we will observe the Brew’s boiler temperature with B at 80/90 during the next few days, the Steam’s B should be either at 5, where I normally see a 1C overshoot, if not higher (may be B=10). At B=1 (as there is no zero), the steam boiler overshoots to 1.5C - 2C at least from the set point of 130C.

Edit

Steam’s default values are 10,0,5,5

Paolo_Cortese

I suggest also to use this value on the brew boiler KP 1, ki 0.00, Kd 5 band 50 and on the machine that I’m testing I have less than 1 C of difference. I would like also to inform that on this firmware there is no filters or delay on the reading of the temperature on the display. In most of case there is an algorithmic that change the temp on the display only if it’s change after “x” seconds in order to see a better stability.

Ciao

Paolo

LMSC

Eiffel There is no 0 in B. You may therefore take it down from 5 to 1.

DavecUK

LMSC My bad, thx

DavecUK

LMSC Small steam boiler overshoots don’t matter at all. It’s not desirable to have steam boiler heating power limited by proportional/derivative activity.

LMSC

DavecUK

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NelisB

Does the group cartridge PID B-value need to be above 50 as well?

DavecUK

NelisB Does the group cartridge PID B-value need to be above 50 as well?

Can’t hurt, even though the group is a significant hunk of metal and reacts differently to water. However if it’s not overshooting and your value is too large…you will reduce response time. So perhaps be conservative try 10, then 20…as soon as it’s not overshooting at all stop.

Yeah..be very conservative.

NelisB

Thanks Dave!

NelisB

I have this water supply in my coffee cabinet that I built for my Lambro. With a huge Fluid-o-tech pump, pressure control, buffer vessel, the works. It works stand alone, like your waterline. I have this idea to use this instead of the pump of the Evo, connecting it with a 24v solenoid valve. So I would replace the EVO pump with the solenoid valve. The solenoid valve will be engaged with the 24v that the system would give to the pump the moment pressure needs to build up. Can this work?

The reason to do this mod:

1: I hate the noise of the little pump

2: The PI pressure will be constant

I know there is a possibility to connect the EVO to the water line, but that doesnt replace the pump.

DavecUK

NelisB It can work, but you must be very careful to not put too much pressure into the EVO…of course you may well affect the parts warranty.

BlakeCanada

I am very interested in this topic. I had a similar idea. Adding a couple valves and a T on the outlet side of the Pump so I could bypass it entirely. I have a pressure reducer I can set to 2 or 3 bar (I would ask here for the optimal pressure) and I don’t mind losing the PI adjustment. I can unplug the pump, and replace the water mains rubber tube with Teflon to the T. And wire that solenoid as ‘always open’. I wouldn’t have to remove the pump personally, I’d like to set it up so I have 3 options, pour over, auto fill tank, and pump bypass for silent operation. What else do I need to consider other than the brew boiler not having a water sensor?

DavecUK

BlakeCanada 2 bar would be optimal…just remember to use a proper, good quality pressure reducer, with a gauge on it.

You will also have ensure, you wire out the stat when you switch to direct water connection, or it will keep firing the pump when you pull the lever as it detects a drop in pressure! This is if you have it switchable pump or tank. The easiest way might be a switch between the pressurestat and the transformer so the pump can never be activated. When you look inside you will understand what I mean.

My alpha had all that gubbins inside, I asked for it to be removed for the Evo…

The Big Vostok has a direct water connection, plus a pump option with pressure regulator to draw from a big external tank, as it has no on board tank…

LMSC

DavecUK The easiest way might be a switch between the pressurestat and the transformer so the pump can never be activated.

Is the change aimed at the brew only or both brew and service? I thought the ask seems to be aiming at the brew at 2-3 bars, prevent the pump kicking in, … The pump also comes up while filling the service boiler. How does the pump will fill the service boiler ? I assume there will be a by-pass for the service boiler ?

Edit

It’s just an academic doubt.

Eiffel

I guess it’s a long shot, but would there be an option in the service menu to make the Evo Leva behave like a Vostok, or has this been removed from our version of the firmware (Maybe a Vostok owner or -definitely- Paolo can enlighten us there).

DavecUK

Eiffel it already does, in fact the Evo has extra programming which the Vostok doesn’t use

Eiffel

My comment was to try to simplify @BlakeCanada’s task, and I thought it was the other way (I expected the Vostok to have extra programming as for multiple groups, etc. which the Evo doesn’t use)

DavecUK

LMSC How does the pump will fill the service boiler ? I assume there will be a by-pass for the service boiler ?

The fill probe on the service boiler loses contact with the water..so it opens the autofill solenoid. When the Autofill solenoid opens the water fills the service boiler. A signal from the Gicar to the pump/pump transformer (can’t remember which) I believe makes the pump run.

When the lever is pulls, the drop in pressure fires the pressurestat, which sends a power to the pump or pump transformer (I can’t remember now), and the pump runs.

By tracing the wiring they will find out whether it’s the transformer on all the time or being switched, rather than the pump being switched..pretty sure it’s the transformer…

Then they need to disable the common….which mI think they can do on the pressurestat because it’s easy to reach…this will prevent the pump running at all.

pinky-and-me I just wasn’t sure if there is some additional function the pump is used for by the firmware. I know there is some priming happening on startup.

The firmware really knows nothing about the pump.

What this whole query has done is make me have a chat with Paolo, because there might be a way of incorporating the whole idea properly into a future Evo build so the user can connect to the mains water connection that is already there and select (from the display)…Direct, Indirect, tank…and get the best of all worlds. Completly silent mains plumbed, mains plumbed but it fills the tank and not plumbed, user fills tank.

It all depends on the costs….and any reliability issues it might introduce.

pinky-and-me

Both.

I’ve been thinking of just rewiring the existing plumb-in valve to be supplied by the pump power and connect the pump outlet to the valve.

I just wasn’t sure if there is some additional function the pump is used for by the firmware. I know there is some priming happening on startup.

NelisB

pinky-and-me

I was thinking the exact same thing this morning, using the existing valve! …After already ordering a valve last night… 🧐

I think the priming happens because of low levels in the boilers. So that should be no problem if the boilers are filled from the water line. (correct me when I’m wrong)

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