Hi all, I'm looking for a classic Italian or Italian style roast, Northern or Southern is fine, but something that when pulled as a 1:2 will not be be either bitter or acidic. I keep reading about honey, chocolate, marshmallow notes etc, but I've tried a number of Italian (Illy, Lavazza, Lucaffe, San Eustachio) beans, and whilst all are fine with milk, most are too bitter or acidic for my clearly unrefined palate, when taken as a straight espresso. I thought I would try a few more Italian roasts, including Passalacqua, Trucillo, Barbaro and Danesi, but I'm rather playing hit and miss here, so thought I would come to the brains trust to see if they have any recommendations. Local UK roasters are fine (I've tried a few myself, including Stow Town, Cotswold Coffee Roasters, Extract, Outpost & Monsoon Estates) for recommendations, but I'm not into third wave orange juice! Any help, greatly appreciated.

Classic Italian espresso is usually pulled a little longer than 1:2. Coffee has some bitterness normally, it also usually has some acidity...this is defined in the description of Italian espresso. Never found honey, marshallow, nor chocolate in any of the Italian brands I have tried whether made by myself, or in a cafe. Third wave coffee can taste of many things, including overlapping with Italian style espresso, orange is a pretty rare note in coffee. Tart/sharp coffee is usually a brewing malfunction (under-extraction). I would re-evaluate how you are trying to achieve your target, aim for the notes you want (probably not all of them at the same time) and ignore whether it has to be Italian/Italian style and a specific ratio. Or accept Italian blends for what they are.

FWIW, and speaking as an Italian drinking Italian coffee for 50+ years, Illy is about as sweet and as chocolatey (bitter chocolate) as one can find in the UK - or in Italy for that matter. A certain amount of bitterness and acidity is there in the 'Italian' taste; more with more Robusta (i.e. 'Southern' Italian - but some Lavazza mixes have a lot of Robusta in them).

Third wave orange juice haha. I like it 🙂 Well I got a kg of roasters blend from a1 coffee it was 5.99 a kg was an ad on my Facebook so I gave them a go. Blend of Brasil and a robusta but tastes typical Italian espresso to me. Also if you pull it 1:2.5 in 20 seconds it tastes like Turkish coffee. Also their Nicaraguan decaf beans were really really good. 8.99 a kg. No roast date on the packaging just BB date but they say you receive beans roasted max 1 week ago and I can confirm mine were pretty fresh and gassy when arrived.

I have some Kimbo Espresso Napoli on the go at the moment. It keeps surprising me with its rich spicy chocolate flavour, particularly notable in a flat white.

Classic Italian Espresso medium/dark - Sweetest Recommendation?s?

Ernie1

Third wave orange juice 🤣

Also following with interest, I keep hoping the ‘fourth wave’ will be all of the artisan roasters doing rich, Italian style roasts.

MWJB

Ernie1 Many are already roasting as dark, or darker than many offerings from Illy, Lavazza & Kimbo.

‘Artisan’ isn’t mutually exclusive with ‘Italian style’.

Maybe counter-intuatively, even Illy quote orange blossom in their Classico notes (much as I like it, it’s not something I have ever picked up on).

whinmoor85

Worth noting that Italian espresso is bitter and balanced out with sugar to make it sweeter.

MWJB

I don’t find the need to add sugar, any more than with any other coffee, obviously different roast levels (I don’t drink Illy Forte, for instance) & proportions of Robusta will play a part in how much sweetness is perceived.

http://www.inei.coffee/en/The-Certified-Italian-Espresso.html

coffeealex

CoyoteOldMan A certain amount of bitterness and acidity is there in the ‘Italian’ taste; more with more Robusta (i.e. ‘Southern’ Italian

I agree. Having grown up myself in an Italian family with my mum starting the day with a moka pot with the small filter laden with usually kimbo coffee, with the sweet aroma filling the kitchen, I have been usually biased towards Italian blends. Of those the most agreeable or even acceptable, I have ever come across in bean formation ( that has not come directly from a roastery) to put into my espresso machine has been passalacqua gran bar. Generally though anything bought not from a roastery is more miss than hit. That one though does work for us but then my palate is more geared towards a strong neapolitan coffee taste

coffeealex

Howard_Alan_Treesong we find union coffee pretty good if you stick to their darker roasts like gajah mountain. They will be fresh as they are from a roastery and you can always try some from waitrose first (the roast date is printed on the packet). If you then like you can always buy direct which is fresher still. Usually you can get them about 4 weeks from roast date from waitrose to try

dfk41

I am part way through a kilo of Coffee Compass Mystery 15. It is £17 a kilo and that is all you are told! It is roasted to a little more than medium and is one of the best Mystery beans I have had from them. If you order from CC, stick one of these on your order. They need 3 weeks resting in my humble but I find them a slightly shorter pour (30 out from 17 in around 30 seconds)

JahLaza

dfk41 They need 3 weeks resting in my humble but I find them a slightly shorter pour (30 out from 17 in around 30 seconds)

Hi, interested to hear how you would describe these as I am experiencing pretty much the exact same parameters with beans I get from a roaster here. Are they medium or light? I assume light roasted at those parameters, any other features? The beans I am getting are Brazilian, light (to medium), I need to let them rest at least 2 weeks, peak seems to be towards 3 weeks. I find I don’t have as much crema but the taste is great

dutchy101

Good to hear that @dfk41 - I haven’t had anything from them for a while and the last Mystery beans whilst being OK, were not as good as the first one I tried (I think it was 12 or 13).

dfk41

JahLaza I will take a photo of the beans and the shot they pull tomorrow as it is switched off now. Certainly no problems with crema!

dfk41

I forgot to refill my airscape! But here is a picture of the shot

JahLaza

dfk41 no problem with your crema!! Yeah looks similarly roasted to mine

Cuprajake

@“dfk41” they dont look overly dark,

i know im going technical but what settings do you use

dfk41

Cuprajake I am grinding at about 10…..but I have to confess I
that I am not sure if I have ever bothered to calibrate the grinder. I just take each shot as a referenve point for the next!

Cuprajake

sorry ment on your lever, group and brew

dfk41

Cuprajake I am running 93/98 at the moment

Cuprajake

Umm quite hot then, I’m on 90/98

Tbh I should use the temp adjustment more 😂