Bianca is small if you have the budget, I’d look at water treatment for any machine.

The marax is a good machine, there’s also the puriska or what it’s called

Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

    @Thebomber I’m a big fan of my heavily modified single boiler for just the reasons you list. Rock solid temperature stability, small footprint, easy to descale (I’m in Oxfordshire and also use Brita filtered water), energy efficient (as to steam you’re only heating 300ml from brew temp to steam temp, not a large steam boiler from cold).

    It’s a bit of a hassle if I’m doing more than 3 flat whites (as I can steam that much milk in one go), but that happens rarely enough that I’m happy with the compromise.

    For making one coffee (my normal use), I’m not convinced it’s that much slower. I pull the shot first, and by the time I’ve cleaned the portafilter and weighed out the milk it’s up to temp for steaming.

      Cuprajake there’s also the puriska or what it’s called

      I am using my Puristika at the moment….but remember, there is no steam (or hot water tap).

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        Yeah, but I presume it’s very temp stable?

        Decent De1pro v1.45 - Niche Duo - Niche Zero - Decent is the best machine ever made -

          Cuprajake No more so than a minima or any other well set up dual boiler and less so than an Evo. It’s just super small and cute.

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            Thanks again for all your thoughts. The Minima has now joined the shortlist; it’s not so much the price creep that worries me, as the size creep, as it is slightly wider than the Classika and a Bianca is slightly wider again…😮

            hornbyben - I admire your resourcefulness with the Silvia but while my Gaggia is heavily moded, I wouldn’t buy a replacement with the intention of doing the same from the outset.

              Thebomber Too bad you have crossed off the Elizabeth. It is a fantastic machine, and just about perfect in so many ways. I love mine. Small foot print but mighty boilers. Looks really nice in my kitchen.

                  I have the ECM Classika PID and it’s a superb machine. I couldn’t ask for anything more espresso wise, but obviously making milk drinks is a bit of a faff. Not really a problem for me since 90% of my brews are espresso shots.

                  Coming from a Gaggia Classic i noticed it takes longer to get to steaming temp (1 minute Vs 30 seconds) and you need to draw more water out of the boiler before getting reasonably dry steam, which makes sense considering that the boiler is much bigger.

                  If you can live with this compromise it’s just a great machine.

                    Evergreen88 - as that’s the same switch as I’m considering it’s reassuring to hear. And thanks for the heads up on the differences from the Gaggia when switching to steam.

                    dndrich - the Elizabeth is not completely out the running as it is so suitable. Just not the same sort of object of desire as those with the E61 group.

                        Ah, well, about that E61 group…

                        Remember that the 61 is the year 1961! And even though they look sexy and shiny, they take time to warm up and stabilize. Most require more maintenance. The big commercial machines have gone away from that and use saturated groups with great temperature stability and rapid warm up. You won’t see an E61 in your local café. The Elizabeth has a semi saturated group with the brew boiler on top and in direct contact with the group head. So fast warm up and great stability shot to shot. Function of the Elizabeth is hard to beat for home use.

                        I was with similar doubts and thought process as you. Ultimately, I’ve chosen to go on the Profitec GO as I want a lot of control over the espresso with some compromise on milk steaming as me and my wife don’t drink too much of those and it can easily handle to steam milk for 2 drinks at once. Furthermore, I want to mod it with a dimmer on the pump so I can do some sort of pressure profiling and pre infusion.

                          I’m biased but totally understand the E61 appreciation. Mine has sat on my counter for about 9 months and I still enjoy how it looks.

                          It’s like a classic car. Yes it needs maintenance but given that it’s so far been serviceable for 60 years, here’s hoping it’ll continue to be for another 60 years and beyond. Just like cars and bikes before the ECU was invented!

                          There’s a fairly high volume shop nearby that runs a 2-group Faema E61 and it just looks stunning.

                          That’s not to say the alternatives aren’t superior, there’s just something about mechanical simplicity that stands the rest of time.

                          If I didn’t make so many milk drinks I’d have gone for the Purisitika or Mara X.

                            Ernie1 Just like cars and bikes before the ECU was invented!

                            But even with an E61, if the brain box goes, you are at the mercy of the manufacturer to source one for you. So, it might have a retro engine, but it has an ECU nonetheless.

                                MediumRoastSteam

                                Fair point.

                                Do machines like the Faema still use proprietary electronics? Ultimately I’d love to have a machine I know will be serviceable for many many years. I appreciate a lot of machines have been around for a number of years now but most are still very ‘new’ in the grand scheme of espresso.

                                It’s probably for another thread in its own right but it’ll be a shame if a machine that’s otherwise faultless has to be retired/replaced due to electronic parts being unavailable.

                                    Ernie1 Do machines like the Faema still use proprietary electronics? Ultimately I’d love to have a machine I know will be serviceable for many many years.

                                    I’d hazard a guess: I bet it does, but Dave most likely will know more.

                                    I remembering asking a similar question in the past, whether machines like the Minima, for example, would have all components off the shelf. I think the answer was almost, but if I remember correctly, most of machines these days have a Gicar (or equivalent) box with proprietary software in it.

                                    So to summarise, I think that, as long as the vendor is still around and the part has not been superseded or discontinued, you should be fine. And I think this is for most things these days anyway.

                                    Even a modern lever machine like the Vesuvius Evo or the Londinium, or the Profitec 800 would have proprietary software in it. On the surface it looks it will last forever. Reality is, it will last as long as the electronics are working and are supported. 😊

                                    Let me give a concrete example: I used to own a Gene Cafe. It was made in 2006. It was working fine, and then, after 16 years, it started failing. I discovered it needed a new PCB. However, that PCB was discontinued, and buying it new was not an option - The manufacturer recommended to either buy a new style board, which would also require new sensors, and it was quite expensive. Luckily for me, I found someone who had a few old boards in stock - in the UK - from back in the day!