I am looking for a new machine and as originally thinking the profitec 700 was the best engineered ( after watching a review from USA.) After watching another review I now think the Lelit is far superior. I am really confused. I was initially put off by the lelit as the mushroom was not stainless steel but the engineering and design seem amazing and good value as well. The flow paddle gives an interesting novel feature which in a way mimics a lever machine. I can see very little against it . My priorities are: 1. a good extraction 2. well designed 3. easy to service 4. quality components 5. spares easy to obtain 6. reliable Which one should i go for to fit those criteria please?

@"coffeealex"#p25735 I do not know anything about Profitec, but Bianca will serve you very well. It hasn’t disappointed the Bianca owners, who are plenty here. @"Cuprajake"#144 was one happy owner until acquiring Evo. Edit Please review some of the Bianca threads here https://coffeetime.freeflarum.com/?q=bianca

If I had to choose between bianca and pro-700, I’d go Bianca. Better value for money, more features. If I had to choose between Bianca and Pro-700 with flow control, and money was no objection… I think I’d still go with the Bianca for some of the features and a flow control valve which is easier to maintain. I owned a Pro-700 in the past. It was a good machine. But it’s been essentially the same machine for ages now. Apart from the upgrade in steam boiler pressure to 2 bar, I don’t think there was much else. Saying all of the above, Lelit has been taken over by the Breville group. That may sway in your decision.

> @"MediumRoastSteam"#p25745 Saying all of the above, Lelit has been taken over by the Breville group. That may sway in your decision. Thanks for that. Lelit was the one i was going for. The Breville bit does make me pause but then I am thinking that the current model has been designed by Lelit with input from some very clever people and so essentially is Lelit more than Breville

Very very happy Bianca owner here. However! I almost never really use the flow control. It can be fun to play around with profiling and see how it affects different beans but I get such incredible shots without touching the flow control I don’t bother 99% of the time. I’m not sure if Lelit do a dual boiler without flow control but if they did and I was buying again I’d go for that. No complaints about the machine though, a joy to use and own and not a single issue with it in coming up to a year of owning it.

> @"Ernie1"#p25748 I’m not sure if Lelit do a dual boiler without flow control but if they did and I was buying again I’d go for that. The Elizabeth: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-elizabeth-pl91t.html

@"Ernie1"#p25748 THank you> I think i probably would not use the flow control often . Did think it might come in useful if I wanted a weaker shot or just to experiment with it. Encouraging to hear you are pleased with it and with no issues.

I like the Bianca so much I have 2 of them….it's a fine machine, I don't think you will be disappointed with your choice.

Bianca is a very clever machine, I loved mine

I think I know the 2 videos you are referring to, no love lost between those two! I've had the Bianca for about a month now and I'm all in on flow control. The Slayer style shots have been working great! The v3 Bianca does a few things the Pro700 doesn't thanks to the electronics/LCC and I love the way it looks, as does my wife (most importantly). I've yet to try the half pressure pump start/preinfusion on the LCC, been doing it all manually so far.

I've had my Bianca for a couple of years now and still love it. I use the flow control with every shot. I had to replace the T-shaped hose fittings as the originals disintegrated. Also I needed a new safety valve but it was pretty easy to replace. Lots of help and advice here on the forum. The biggest thing for me was the flow control valve needed replacing. It wasn't cheap but it was my fault. I failed to do the routine maintenance so an expensive lesson learned.

Lelit Bianca or profitec 700.

coffeealex

DavecUK Thank you. For me they are both great machines with plus and minuses both sides. From a technical point of view ( as I have become more interested with that in time) are they both very serviceable in your opinion? easy to obtain parts? One thing i noticed with the profitec is they have a plug on both boilers that could come in useful for things like fully emptying if you ever needed to descale, although the service boiler one is not as well positioned imo as the brew one. Could be useful feature for draining either and avoiding it travelling through the group e61 parts.

DavecUK

coffeealex The lelit service boiler can be emptied via the hot water tap for descaling, presumable so can the profitec.

there is an access panel under the Lelit brew boiler (and service boiler), so you can remove the heating element to drain it. See my tech tour video for the Bianca. It’s for the V1, but the main layout re boilers hasn’t changed.

Parts and servicing of either machine shouldn’t be problematic….the V3 Lelit is of course slightly more complex… with the hi and low flow solenoid systems

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex One thing i noticed with the profitec is they have a plug on both boilers that could come in useful for things like fully emptying if you ever needed to descale, although the service boiler one is not as well positioned imo as the brew one.

Do they? That must be new. Do you have images or a video showing that?

MediumRoastSteam

CoyoteOldMan I should have made it clear that this is clearly a scam! I just found it funny that MediumRoastSteam made a typo (missing a zero in the price),

I meant to have written £200 more. I’ve corrected the post now. 👍

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex ake it with a pinch of salt but heard it from more than one employee that they see far less profitec machines breaking down than any other make.

My Profitec broke down (Display was turning itself on and off constantly once low water level was detected). That was within 15 months of ownership or so. The solution was a Gicar box replacement under warranty.

My Elizabeth (Lelit) has been going strong for the past two years and counting.

I’d take with a pinch of salt indeed.

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex The point is probably best illustrated in the Mark and Java Jim videos which contrast each other. Interestingly enough they both seem to have been taken down from what I can see.

Please ignore that video. It shows one company slagging off the machine they don’t carry in their stock! Then the other person goes and creates an adequate response in return.

Absolutely total bullshit. What those videos showed me is that I would never ever again watch anything from the YouTube channel again - specially from the first one. Pure marketing. Shameful.

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam boiler drain plug

saw it on this video

CoyoteOldMan

coffeealex they are not selling going forward any non profiling profitec.

That would mean they aren’t selling anything other than the 500, 600 and 700 with the profiling kit… which would imply they are going only for the top (10 - 20%) of the market. They are still listing the 300, 800 and the Go (in no fewer than 4 different colours - must make better coffee if it’s red?). It’s also interesting that they aren’t listing any flow control/profiling ECM machines.

coffeealex

CoyoteOldMan don’t know with the other models 300 etc . All i was told that as far as the 700 is concerned they are only going to sell and stock the one with the flow valve going forward. Maybe lelit has pushed them to think that way.

CoyoteOldMan

coffeealex Possible. The other factor is that they (ECM/Profitec) have decreased the price of the profiling kit quite significantly from when it was only available as an option for the Synchronika: it was nearly £400 (6 months ago); now the “flow profile option” on the 700 is £100 (or less, since the price difference also includes lever steam/water valves). It does however bring the price difference with the Bianca to £300.

MediumRoastSteam

So for an extra £300 you get:

Drain valves;*
Stainless Steel E61 “mushroom”;
Potentially better overall finishing and layout;
Joystick valves;
No low pressure mode;
No movable tank;
No LCC;
If memory serves me right, the Profitec flow control valve has more involved maintenance than Lelit’s.

* I don’t see any mentioning of drain valves on the machine though. If that’s something you’d value, I’d ask BB to clarify.

Good luck in your purchase and decision. I think both machines would be great. Just remember to go by what you think is best, rather than someone else’s opinion.

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam I don’t see any mentioning of drain values on the machine though. If that’s something you’d value, I’d ask BB to clarify.

👍👍👍👍👍👍
It wouldn’t be the first (nor the last) time something is done/added for a specific market that isn’t possible/replicated for others. The taps/plugs (as the one for draining the service boiler) are probably there anyway. The valve… may or may not be.

coffeealex

MediumRoastSteam Agreed both machines are great. It feels like comparing something like Pelé or Maradona, where I think ultimately they are both winners. The fact that it has me made me think carefully is that they are both such high quality. Its going to come down to small features that may suit me best. I think ultimately the fact that everyone has opinions and is candid is what makes this forum great and valued

Cuprajake

its swings and roundabouts

people said my minima was badly made, it wasnt

i cant speak highly enough of the bianca,

both machines will serve you well, its up to you which you choose, neither will mak better coffee than the other, thats you, the machine is a tool,

factor in looks, ease of filling, cost for future mods

then buy the bianca

re bb - they will sell you what they make the most on,

but do buy from them as there the best in the uk for service, not that theres much else

coffeealex

Cuprajake both machines will serve you well, its up to you which you choose, neither will mak better coffee than the other, thats you, the machine is a tool

You are so right! I have made so many absolutely c… extractions in the past that the biggest variable in the equation was me. The good news is I am improving….I hope..

and yes the accessories are impressive

MediumRoastSteam

coffeealex It feels like comparing something like Pelé or Maradona, where I think ultimately they are both winners.

I’m bias on that one! 🤣😂

Cuprajake

Id also take a look at what comes with.

The Bianca has a tamper, a cloth, multiple portafilter, everything bar grinder to get you going

DavecUK

Cuprajake they couldn’t get a grinder in the accessories box it’s so full🤣

coffeealex

As i have researched more into my next machine, I have been slightly put off by the profitec. The 2 main reasons are that as I intend to service it myself and do the repairs (as much as I can) the profitec has disappointed me slightly. Most of you will be surprised at that statement as a cursory look at the interior shows a well laid out machine with plenty of room to work. The bit that would annoy me is the fact that to remove the case looks fiddly and cumbersome, (to me at least). Don’t like the idea of tilting it up to access screws underneath, and there are some fiddly inside screws to undo. Also not sold on the idea you have to remove the top tray to access the water. I think that would annoy me if I was using a jug at the time. So now still in the frame is the lelit but also looking at ecm synchronika that seems to avoid a lot of the profitec misgivings. I do realise that internally though they are the same machine so value for money comes to mind. At the end of the day though I think i have to see whatever I get as a purchase to last a long time so getting it right in terms of features/quality would be my priority

Cuprajake

personally, id buy the bianca and use the money saved for a rodi setup, with dual membrane to bring the water to 1:1 use:waste esp if you are on a metre,

then use potassium/sodium bicarbonate to refresh the water and never worry about any scale, that way the only time your inside the machine is if something breaks.

there may be the smallest trade off in taste, im not sure you will note it

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