It’s finally catching up. I gave my pour over kits and gooseneck kettle to my daughter today. When she sees the simplicity of clever brew under 2 mins, she will take that too. I can see her asking for a grinder some time in the near future. As a pour over, I think, she will be ok with the hand grinder. I reckon she will take mine - JX PRO, while she will be happy to get the Wilfa Svart for under £100 for brews. I think this is also good for filter - Clever, AP, V60. Please advise. I need to start looking for an electric grinder, should she take mine. I do not plan to spend more than £600. Niche is a straight-forward choice; but, am conscious of my taste / preference on the lighter side, espresso, filter and milk-based for my wife. I would prefer a flat in Niche, which is a dream. I’m discounting Eureka and Df 64. Kopi Deva is priced out. I’m tempted to get one of the Royals from the classifieds, which is already a single doser. Does the Royal work seemlessly for espressos and filter? What are the retention and exchange of the Royal? Can I stick SSP red speed coated burrs on the Royal? Is it too much of a faff with the Royal? But, it’s too big for a home use. I think adding a Chute and SSP burrs set add the cost considerably. Let me know your thoughts please! I don’t need to buy a grinder immediately though! Thx

@"LMSC"#p25935 - if you want to check the Niche out against your machine and coffee - just say it. We don’t live very far from each other. 👍 Saying that, I’d love to compare what the Niche would be like against a flat burr grinder, like the Solo. I keep looking at videos, and, from what I see, at that price point, it’s hard to beat the workflow of the Niche.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p25936 That’s very kind of you! I appreciate that. We have been having lots of guests since May. I need to find a convenient time for ourselves. Let me figure that out and come back to you with a time line. Niche will be hard to beat for the price, performance and workflows!

I have the major, a royal is bigger than that, while keeping the same 83mm I've never seen the need for the bigger motor of the royal, I'm pretty sure the major could grind gravel I bet all in with the chute and SSP I broke even if not under £600 so it can be done. There's going to be an 83mm solo df68 coming out. I prefer my mazzer to the niche personally, but the niche is a good grinder. I don't really do pour over with my major, I have a wilfa svart for that. SSP only do Hu burrs for mazzer to so espresso based.

@"Cuprajake"#p25938 I have been tempted to get a used mazzer since reading about your MM. Sure, it will last a life time. The Royal is so big and the size is keeping me away. I checked the SSP site. They mention it’s for both espressos and pour overs (brews), unless I looked at the wrong product. http://www.sspgrind.com/sub/product/product.php?idx=1&part_idx=1&PHPSESSID=184330d74d7dcd67f67f0472ac305e11 If that’s what you have got, if you don’t mind, could you try some pour overs on your mazzer and see how they compare please? I wont know if it is easy to quickly change from pour over to espresso. Please don’t try if it isn’t. Thx! I saw the DF 83 discussion elsewhere. It will be interesting if they had addressed the issues DF64 had so that the DF83 users don’t have to carry out many mods. I won’t jump and buy straightaway without first impressions and some reviews. I wonder if Dave did any review, as I think he did one for DF64. The Turingrinders mentions early Sep for pre-orders and end 2022 as delivery date.

Pound for pound, the longer I own/use the Super Jolly, the more I think it’s gotta be one of the best options for sub £500 grinder budgets. I paid £175 for mine. A well used ex-commercial doser model from 2015. Added the Mazzer funnel and short hopper, a cup rest, some walnut parts from Germany and the SSP burrs. I’ve not tallied it all up but probably about £550 total. Far less if I was to skip the cosmetic upgrades. Also the stock Mazzer burrs are incredibly good so a new set of those would be a further saving. Of course the Major is a step up in quality but I like the proportions of the SJ on the counter. However! Whilst it’s technically capable of brew grinding, adjusting it is going to be the biggest bottleneck. The collar is designed to be set in a commercial environment and not accidentally knocked out of place so it’s not always super easy to make fine adjustments. I definitely wouldn’t want to back and forth between brew and espresso.

> @"Cuprajake"#p25977 mazzers will hold/exchange some grinds. I doubt, anyone can tell the difference. I am sure, you clean it regularly. When you grind after grinding, how much does your major retain? I am sure you throw in a few beans more when you grind the first time after cleaning. > @"Cuprajake"#p25977 pour over stuff is at work but I’ll happily grind some beans haha I find pour over is less stressful than espresso! It’s all @"MWJB"#139’s and JH’s fault! 🤣 Let know what you thought of it when you make filter from MM vs your Wilfa - just to compare from your taste point of view. The main thing is ease of switching back and forth between pour over and espresso. Dusk thinks it isn’t as he has been using it for a long time. Do you know what’s the difference in dimensions — without hopper and the collection plate — between MM and Royal? Thx Thanks Jake. I really appreciate the gesture.

Quick vids https://youtu.be/aLnCN8DqObM And https://youtu.be/TwLPTIHLaKs

Electric grinder

LMSC

Ernie1 Whilst it’s technically capable of brew grinding, adjusting it is going to be the biggest bottleneck. The collar is designed to be set in a commercial environment and not accidentally knocked out of place so it’s not always super easy to make fine adjustments. I definitely wouldn’t want to back and forth between brew and espresso.

Thanks for chipping in, which is very helpful.

This was my main concern. Switching between brew and espresso is important. I am not going to buy another grinder for pour overs.

I thought it is unlikely to be easy. I brew 1 to 2 cups a day and also pull a 2-3 shots each in the morning and evening.

Won’t make sense to go the mazzer route, given the experience. The cost is ok as Jake said likely to be around £600.

Thx

Cuprajake

Umm it’s hard to say, as the mazzers will hold/exchange some grinds.

But then so did all the grinders Hoffman tested over £3k.

The mazzer is easy to change, it’s not a thing that will get knocked imo,

My pour over stuff is at work but I’ll happily grind some beans haha

LMSC

Cuprajake mazzers will hold/exchange some grinds.

I doubt, anyone can tell the difference.

I am sure, you clean it regularly. When you grind after grinding, how much does your major retain? I am sure you throw in a few beans more when you grind the first time after cleaning.

Cuprajake pour over stuff is at work but I’ll happily grind some beans haha

I find pour over is less stressful than espresso! It’s all @MWJB’s and JH’s fault! 🤣

Let know what you thought of it when you make filter from MM vs your Wilfa - just to compare from your taste point of view. The main thing is ease of switching back and forth between pour over and espresso. Dusk thinks it isn’t as he has been using it for a long time.

Do you know what’s the difference in dimensions — without hopper and the collection plate — between MM and Royal? Thx

Thanks Jake. I really appreciate the gesture.

Cuprajake

Quick vids

And

dutchy101

LMSC interesting if they had addressed the issues DF64 had so that the DF83 users don’t have to carry out many mods.

I think these mods are already sorted on the new Solo units (the ones in Bella Barista have a grind indicator and I believe they’ve also amended the clump crusher membrane too) - you might want to switch out the burrs to Mazzers still though.

LMSC

dutchy101 ink these mods are already sorted on the new Solo units (the ones in Bella Barista have a grind indicator and I believe they’ve also amended the clump crusher membrane too) - you might want to switch out the burrs to Mazzers still though.

If Solo, I would wait to see their DF83. Pre-orders are due soon in the US at least.

MediumRoastSteam

dutchy101 I think these mods are already sorted on the new Solo units (the ones in Bella Barista have a grind indicator and I believe they’ve also amended the clump crusher membrane too

Looks like the DF64 makers don’t test their grinders too well! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

What made then go for the latest declumper design is beyond the realm of my imagination! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

LMSC

Wow! Very interesting Jake! Of course, I grind a lot coarser than that for V60. But I get an idea. Much appreciated mate. 🙏🏽

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam But it looks pretty and funky. Never mind that it doesn’t work…

dutchy101

MediumRoastSteam

Oh wow, had no idea this was what they had gone for. I changed mine for one I picked up from Etsy for about £5 which works a treat

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I saw the entire video. It wasn’t too bad as he had to remove just one of the two declumpers. I thought while removing one of them, vac extracting the stuck grounds, he could have also removed the grounds from the burrs and put on record how much it retains the first time and so on.

MediumRoastSteam

I’ve been having the itch to upgrade my Niche to a flat burr grinder recently, without having to spend £1,500 or more for a Lagon P64. I watched many videos, many comparisons. It seems the Niche, at least in terms of workflow, mess and ease of use, is hard to beat.

Cuprajake

Yeah you get the idea.

I very rarely drink anything bar espresso now.

In terms of the niche it was built for single dosing

Most grinders are converted.

I’m happy with my major, it’s not like it’s alot of effort. Extra 20s if that but then the mazzer grinds quicker than the niche so swings and roundabouts.

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - I agree. I was referring to as an out of box product. Equally, I’m sure you can buy the df64 and mod it to minimise its shortcomings. Plenty of people have done so and are happy with it.

MediumRoastSteam

CoyoteOldMan

Yeah, a 3mm spacer carved out of something would do the trick. I just don’t understand why it’s like that out of the factory.

To make clear: that would not put me off buying the grinder if that’s what I wanted. It’s simple enough to fix, and, more important, the chute is a solved problem and readily available as mentioned by others here.

dutchy101 - from what I watch, they say that the grinder is very staticky prone. How’s that in your experience? Is it really all over the show? Would it be possible to grind directly into the PF?

What I do like about this grinder is that there’s a wide range of burrs available and there’s a wide community of owners out there.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC It wasn’t too bad as he had to remove just one of the two declumpers

I watched the whole video too. But you have to ask yourself, what goes in the heads of the manufacturers to put two screens? They obviously never tested, because out of the factory, the retention is insane, and it simply doesn’t work.

Also, as mentioned in the video, if you remove any of the screens, you have to worry about the screw not interfering with the burr assembly, as it would then go further than it should. Go figure. 🤷‍♂️

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam you have to worry about the screw not interfering with the burr assembly, as it would then go further than it should.

That should be easy enough to fix by cutting the screen centre and leaving the part under the screws as a ‘washer’? It still makes no sense, but at least it’s not hard to remedy.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam What I do like about this grinder is that there’s a wide range of burrs available and there’s a wide community of owners out there.

Df83 is around the corner! I wonder what the price will be.

LMSC

@dutchy101

When you clean the grinder next time, would you mind sharing the following please?

Retention when you grind the first time (I know MRS may say it may not be relevant 😊)
retention during subsequent grinds or exchange as per the video.

Thx

dutchy101

LMSC

So I gave the grinder a good clean yesterday - removed all grinds from screwheads with a toothpick etc. - it looked as clean as the day I received it. First coffee this morning I put 18g in and got 17g out so 1g down from the first grind after cleaning. Will measure the other 2 grinds I do today and edit this message as I go along.

Grind 1 - 18g in & 17g out (1 gram loss)

Grind 2 - 18.5g in & 18g out (0.5g loss) - planned that one perfectly haha

Grind 3 - 18.2g in & 18.1g out (0.1g loss).

Quite happy with that as it goes.

dfk41

DF83……all grinders are based on burr cost. Take the Niche. They use genuine Mazzer Kony burrs that cost (am guessing) £140 per set. They could use aftermarket Italmill ones at a much smaller costs. If the DF83 is using Ceado/Mazzer burrs then common sense says it is not coming in at £600!

LMSC

dfk41 If the DF83 is using Ceado/Mazzer burrs then common sense says it is not coming in at £600!

I think they would offer these burrs along with SSP as an optional upgrade.

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 The Ceado 83 mm burr are somewhere between £110 and £550 retail depending on coating; the Mazzer Major 83 mm are slightly cheaper. At ~£70 retail, I don’t see why they would not be a realistic possibility in a £5-600 Niche-style grinder… though of course a couple of chinesium burrs at £25 retail would leave more room for profit.

BTW - there’s a bloke on eBay selling apparently genuine Mazzer Ti-coated 83 mm burrs for £40. If I hadn’t just bought a set of coated burrs for the Ceado, I’d be tempted to see if they fit…