Is it OK to use Third Wave Water without a Lelit Filter in a Lelit Elizabeth

JHCCoffee

I am testing Third Wave Water (TWW) Espresso Version in my Lelit Elizabeth, following their directions of 1 packet to 1 gallon RO water.

Overall TDS is 180 vs my BWT filtered tap water at 120 vs straight tap water at 160.

I understand that TWW is within recommended parameters of 3 to 4 grains calcium (50 to 60 ppm) and 150 total dissolved solids.

Should I use a Lelit filter with this water? Or am I fine without one?

I presume that using a Lelit filter would alter the TWW water, which would defeat the purpose.

But I do not wish to cause scale build up or risk any other damage to my machine.

Comments? Thoughts?

Thanks all.

JHCCoffee

DavecUK

JHCCoffee Using a filter after making up “3rd Wave water” would seem to be counter productive.

As for use in espresso machines, does the manufacturer say it’s fine? That it doesn’t cause issues with 1way valves, solenoids, vac breakers etc. How about increasing concentrations within the steam boiler from a fairly high starting point, chloride levels etc.

Did they perhaps test this formulation in prosumer espresso machines for a year+, looking for problems, checking boilers with a borescope?

Or did influencers schlurp, drink and roll their eyes a lot, like they did with a certain special filter jug?

Rob1

JHCCoffee

Based on the information you have provided it isn’t possible to say.

TWW espresso gets alkalinity from bicarbonate and citrate. Magnesium and Calcium hardness.

TDS doesn’t tell us anything useful.

There is scale potential with any hardness and alkalinity from bicarbonates.

Using the filter would defeat the purpose completely. If you don’t know what the sachets are doing to the water exactly you could always just buy the ingredients and make your own concentrate instead.

Ordinarily, I’d say you could test with a GH/KH drop kit, but in this case it would not give a true picture of alkalinity as citrate continues to buffer at a lower pH than the endpoint water titration kits use.

simonc

Hoping the answer is it’s fine as I use same water in my Minima.

JHCCoffee

Rob1

Most appreciated Rob. I have emailed TWW for further information on its chemistry. What would you need to know, should you wish to offer assistance?

Rob1

JHCCoffee If they share the info I’ll be surprised.

Alkalinity from citrate, alkalinity from carbonates. Total Hardness as CaCO3.

You should refresh the water in the service boiler to prevent mineral build up anyway.

JHCCoffee

Rob1

Hi Rob

This is as much as Third Wave Coffee will tell me:

The Espresso Profile contains Magnesium Sulfate, Calcium Citrate, and Potassium Bicarbonate with ~80 ppm Alkalinity, ~7.6 pH. It has a dissolved concentration of 150ppm (TDS).

Thoughts, relative to my original question?

Thanks

Rob1

That isn’t enough info, unsurprisingly. Giving the required info would mean sharing their exact recipe.

Although going off the alkalinity alone, yes there will be some scale as you have bicarbonate and hardness present.