My in-laws have the Sage Oracle, and it’s a decent machine and easy to use. It autotamps the coffee to a set level (about 21g for the double basket), then you just move it across and press the double button and it gives a set time of water. Milk steaming is as easy as stick the wand in and hit go.

The only tweaking really required is adjusting the grind size if it comes out too fast or slow. In my opinion the coffee out is much better than even the very expensive bean to cup machines we have at work.

If you go down the espresso rabbit hole you can do everything manually, but in auto mode it’s very easy.

ascanio1 You may, but I can’t really answer as I don’t fancy getting sued, suffice to say Jura don’t like me much now. If you want to buy one though, go ahead, it’s one of the more expensive, but definitely not one of the best.

Melitta had a great system for the coffee, but sadly I think got rid of all their manual steam wands for the suck and quick froth systems…which are not great….read the review I did.

In the same way, one bright soul will come on here asking about an Elektra Verve Espresso machine, I will say don’t touch with a barge pole….but I don’t believe I could explain, without potentially being sued.

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      Do any of the B2C listed offer an option to pour boiling hot water and to ground coffee for use separately?

      If yes, then could I not use that option to add ground coffee in a filter, inside a very basic filter holder on top of a cup and press hot water only?

        @ascanio1 sorry if this has been answered already, but can’t you store an aeropress or V60 and a hand grinder in a cupboard somewhere and take them out when needed? An aeropress and suitable grinder has a small footprint.

        Regarding Sage machines, I wouldn’t say they are particularly reliable, from my experience at least, and they are costly to repair. The grinder is adequate at best, and not what you would expect for such an expensive machine. From what I remember it’s the same grinder as used in their cheaper range of espresso machines (Sage Barista Pro and Sage Barista Express), both of which I have owned.

        Although I’m sure milk steaming on the Sage will be leagues ahead of fully automated B2C machines. I just don’t think I could part with almost £2k for a sage coffee machine..problem is I’m not sure if there are any good alternatives in the B2C world.

          ascanio1 the sage oracle would let you grind and use for something else, but to be honest I don’t think it would work as they’re not designed to go course enough for filter and they’re not low enough retention for switching either.

          To be honest, I don’t think what you’re looking for exists. Picking whatever suits your wife best, and finding somewhere to stash a hand grinder and v60 is probably the lowest footprint option that actually meets all your needs.

              HVL87 Thank you for addressing my help request.

              You will find the reply to why your suggestion re the v60 is not possible elsewhere in this thread, but thank you for your comments re the Sage.

                hornbyben Thank you for your insight. What do you mean for “not low enough for retention”?

                Re the v60 solution I already explained that there is a problem of timing and space on the kitchen counter when we are all hurrying out in the morning.

                Do you (or anyone else) know the maximum coarseness of the offered grinds by de Longhi Elite and Sage Oracle?

                    ascanio1 yes, then could I not use that option to add ground coffee in a filter, inside a very basic filter holder on top of a cup and press hot water only?

                    I have no idea if this is even possible. Assuming there is a way out,

                    • what filter do you propose to use?
                    • Where do you propose to store this filter?
                    • Would you not need a filter paper, without which you will get silts into the cup.
                    • How is it different to getting a £6 V60, thrown in a paper filter, add powder and water like JH does in his youtube V60 video?
                    • I am sure we all have a water kettle, except some of the old blokes here use their RO machine to dispense hot water! 😊

                    Some of us struggle to understand that somebody has got time to grind the power from B2C, grab a filter, pour water and get a filter coffee into the mug; but, can’t do that with V60. It takes as much space as the filter you are mentioning, unless you are looking for an integrated filter. :-)

                    The choices:

                    • Getting a B2C from your list for as much money as you have and go from there
                    • Or, get something from here or here or here. Some of these won’t cut with your lack of time.

                    I have no idea how good or otherwise they are!

                    GL mate!

                        ascanio1 the whole machine is designed for espresso. I don’t know know exactly how course sorry, but I know there are several positions available on the machine dial, and you can adjust inside.

                        Regarding retention, the grinder is not single dose, it’s designed to use a hopper. This means when you change grind size you’d need to purge several grams of coffee out to get rid of the old stuff.

                        I know you seem against the idea of a hand grinder, and at the end of the day it’s your kitchen and your choice, but most coffee machines have space on top for cups (or a hand grinder & filter 😉). 30-60s of hand grinding is going to be quicker than messing around changing grind sizes, purging etc.

                        I think if you really don’t have the space, the only practical solution is to give up on your filter preference and learn to like an espresso based drink so that you use the same machine.

                            LMSC Thank you for offering your help.

                            As I repeated a few times before, there is no space on the kitchen counter. If necessary I can post a picture! That little counter space will be used, simoultaneously, by my wife preparing breakfast and me brewing coffee. I appreciate that some “struggle to understand that somebody has got time to grind the power from B2C, grab a filter, pour water and get a filter coffee into the mug; but, can’t do that with V60” and also I would, but short of making a video it is complicated to explain how little space we have, and how we keep bumping into each other. And, no, we do not have a kettle on the counter, we have a toaster. Because of space constraints we keep the kettle in a cupboard and replace the toaster in case of need.

                            So, this is the filter holder that I would place under the hot water spout of the B2C, in place of the cup, after I brewed my wife’s coffee. It takes me 2 minutes brewing time and about one minute drip. But this will be possible only if the B2C will be able to grind sufficiently coarse coffee, and if the B2C will be able to dispense it into a filter/filter holder.

                            Hence my request if anyone knows of a B2C that can grind the beans and deliver them for use in a separate brew.

                            This would have been the perfect solution if it had the option to brew also cappuccino, caffé’latte, etc. with a single button and if it had the grinder incorporated in the body. I will try to convince my wife to consider this unit, but …

                                hornbyben Thank you for your suggestion. I am considering this with a grinder on top. The challenge is that my wife might not like the idea of having to grind the coffee separately and, anyway, not being offered the various coffee based drinks as a one button solution.

                                This coffee all-in-one is her idea and her toy and I want to please her as we bought a toy was a classic car for my enjoyment. The deal was that I get the car and she gets a B2C, to replace our Technivorm KB741 + grinder (Baratza Esatto).

                                    ascanio1 I may be unfairly judging the delonghi, but I can’t help but think it will be mediocre to poor at everything, but then you have asked your question on a coffee forum, which means by default we’re going to be very picky.

                                    Have you considered just getting an nespresso machine? While they won’t give you everything you could get with a manual espresso setup, they are very convenient, very easy to use, have a small footprint and there’s a reason they dominate the home coffee market

                                        As someone advised, given all the limitations, compromising filter and learning to drink espresso or Americano looks easier to achieve.

                                        Btw, that clever will also require a paper filter. I think you already mentioned it elsewhere.

                                        I don’t know if you already mentioned, is there a utility room?

                                          If budget is not an issue, this may put a huge smile on your wife’s face. But, still may not get you what you want.

                                          https://www.miele.co.uk/e/countertop-coffee-machine-cm-7750-coffeeselect-obsidian-black-10969350-p?neocom_source=51c8386b-604d-4056-87e0-ff31083f424c

                                          FWIW, for half the cost, Lelit Elizabeth is a no brainer. It’s fantastic, small, faster, quicker and makes a top quality cup, except it’s not a one touch. Our @MediumRoastSteam can tell you all about this. We know what your replies are!

                                          Perhaps, if any one around your area has a machine like ours’ it might be worth paying a visit with your wife. Or, visit BellaBarista as you are living in the UK, better still perhaps have a cup each from B2C and our type of machine and let her see for herself.

                                          She might be in a better position to appreciate that her best interests are best served by looking at the whole thing differently. May be, you might ask her to read this thread, if you haven’t shown her these discussions and only if you don’t mind. :-)

                                          Where about in the UK?

                                          ascanio1 That clever dripper would not fit under a B2C water spout. Certainly not with a cup underneath!

                                          I understand that your priorities are space driven and that your wife demands hassle free convenient cappucino. That means compromises are required. B2C machines make espresso based drinks - not filter. If you also want to make filter that will need to be made separately on separate equipment which you just don’t have space for.

                                          If I was you, I’d get the wife the B2C machine - it’s what you promised her after all, and simply forgo any attempt to make filter at the same time as you simply don’t have the space. Compromise is required - you got the car, now you can only have filter when your wife is not also using the kitchen.

                                              Happy wife = happy life. Keep the monstrosity (read: the bean to cup machine) in the kitchen and buy yourself for a significant lower price a hand grinder and a clever dripper. That can be easily stowed away neatly almost anywhere.

                                              You promised her. Now you have to deliver. 🤪 - you definitely got the better side of the bargain!

                                                hornbyben I want discerning advice. I may not like what I read or I may like it and be unable to obtain it, but I want picky members. Otherwise I would listen to any store advisor…

                                                Nespresso has a few flaws: pods which cost a bomb, few drink options, no grinder.