ascanio1 I’ve looked around a bit. There are some, but they seem all really low quality (as in: £200-300 range for a ‘combined’ machine, sometimes including a smasher erm, grinder). De Longhi and Magimix are the two brands that keep coming up.

    Thank you to everyone for your contributions.

    It seems that it is irrelevant which B2C I will buy for my filter coffee. I have therefore shortlisted these:
    Jura E8
    De’Longhi Prima Donna Elite
    Sage Oracle Touch

    I will appreciate comments based on these three for other coffees as filter will not be an option. Thank you.

      Whatever you do decide to go for, you may want to hold out until the Black Friday sales - still about 2 months away, but some places do start their sales earlier.

      ascanio1 My opinion - unfortunately based on third party reviews and the thread here, rather than any direct experience:

      1. If Dave says to avoid the Jura, avoid the Jura.

      2. My perceived pluses of the Sage:

        • Quality of coffee and steam

        • Finely-adjustable grinder

        • Automatic steam functions

        • Well made - probably more reliable (but I have no evidence)

        • Fast and quiet (vs. the DeLonghi)

      3. Sage cons:

        • VERY expensive

        • Requires manual moving and emptying of the portafilter

        • Footprint

        • More regular maintenance

      If it were my money, I’d go for the Sage, but it is twice or more than twice the cost, and your wife may not be happy with the not totally automated ‘coffee transfer’. Plus… I haven’t even seen either machine, never mind used them for a while. The only review from someone whom I respect on ‘coffee matters’ is for the Sage; it doesn’t mean the DeLonghi is a bad machine, just that it has no reviews.

        I’m fairly sure the Sage Oracle will make better coffee, but this comes at the expense of being a more manual machine. I suppose it comes down to how much the user / his girlfriend want to do when it comes to making coffee. If it’s a case of just pressing a button, the Sage isn’t the right machine.

        I agree with Dave on the Jura. My brother has it and the coffee wasn’t a patch on my Sage Bambino Plus when I had coffee from it.

        My in-laws have the Sage Oracle, and it’s a decent machine and easy to use. It autotamps the coffee to a set level (about 21g for the double basket), then you just move it across and press the double button and it gives a set time of water. Milk steaming is as easy as stick the wand in and hit go.

        The only tweaking really required is adjusting the grind size if it comes out too fast or slow. In my opinion the coffee out is much better than even the very expensive bean to cup machines we have at work.

        If you go down the espresso rabbit hole you can do everything manually, but in auto mode it’s very easy.

        ascanio1 You may, but I can’t really answer as I don’t fancy getting sued, suffice to say Jura don’t like me much now. If you want to buy one though, go ahead, it’s one of the more expensive, but definitely not one of the best.

        Melitta had a great system for the coffee, but sadly I think got rid of all their manual steam wands for the suck and quick froth systems…which are not great….read the review I did.

        In the same way, one bright soul will come on here asking about an Elektra Verve Espresso machine, I will say don’t touch with a barge pole….but I don’t believe I could explain, without potentially being sued.

        Contact me

            Do any of the B2C listed offer an option to pour boiling hot water and to ground coffee for use separately?

            If yes, then could I not use that option to add ground coffee in a filter, inside a very basic filter holder on top of a cup and press hot water only?

              @ascanio1 sorry if this has been answered already, but can’t you store an aeropress or V60 and a hand grinder in a cupboard somewhere and take them out when needed? An aeropress and suitable grinder has a small footprint.

              Regarding Sage machines, I wouldn’t say they are particularly reliable, from my experience at least, and they are costly to repair. The grinder is adequate at best, and not what you would expect for such an expensive machine. From what I remember it’s the same grinder as used in their cheaper range of espresso machines (Sage Barista Pro and Sage Barista Express), both of which I have owned.

              Although I’m sure milk steaming on the Sage will be leagues ahead of fully automated B2C machines. I just don’t think I could part with almost £2k for a sage coffee machine..problem is I’m not sure if there are any good alternatives in the B2C world.

                ascanio1 the sage oracle would let you grind and use for something else, but to be honest I don’t think it would work as they’re not designed to go course enough for filter and they’re not low enough retention for switching either.

                To be honest, I don’t think what you’re looking for exists. Picking whatever suits your wife best, and finding somewhere to stash a hand grinder and v60 is probably the lowest footprint option that actually meets all your needs.

                    HVL87 Thank you for addressing my help request.

                    You will find the reply to why your suggestion re the v60 is not possible elsewhere in this thread, but thank you for your comments re the Sage.

                      hornbyben Thank you for your insight. What do you mean for “not low enough for retention”?

                      Re the v60 solution I already explained that there is a problem of timing and space on the kitchen counter when we are all hurrying out in the morning.

                      Do you (or anyone else) know the maximum coarseness of the offered grinds by de Longhi Elite and Sage Oracle?

                          ascanio1 yes, then could I not use that option to add ground coffee in a filter, inside a very basic filter holder on top of a cup and press hot water only?

                          I have no idea if this is even possible. Assuming there is a way out,

                          • what filter do you propose to use?
                          • Where do you propose to store this filter?
                          • Would you not need a filter paper, without which you will get silts into the cup.
                          • How is it different to getting a £6 V60, thrown in a paper filter, add powder and water like JH does in his youtube V60 video?
                          • I am sure we all have a water kettle, except some of the old blokes here use their RO machine to dispense hot water! 😊

                          Some of us struggle to understand that somebody has got time to grind the power from B2C, grab a filter, pour water and get a filter coffee into the mug; but, can’t do that with V60. It takes as much space as the filter you are mentioning, unless you are looking for an integrated filter. :-)

                          The choices:

                          • Getting a B2C from your list for as much money as you have and go from there
                          • Or, get something from here or here or here. Some of these won’t cut with your lack of time.

                          I have no idea how good or otherwise they are!

                          GL mate!

                              ascanio1 the whole machine is designed for espresso. I don’t know know exactly how course sorry, but I know there are several positions available on the machine dial, and you can adjust inside.

                              Regarding retention, the grinder is not single dose, it’s designed to use a hopper. This means when you change grind size you’d need to purge several grams of coffee out to get rid of the old stuff.

                              I know you seem against the idea of a hand grinder, and at the end of the day it’s your kitchen and your choice, but most coffee machines have space on top for cups (or a hand grinder & filter 😉). 30-60s of hand grinding is going to be quicker than messing around changing grind sizes, purging etc.

                              I think if you really don’t have the space, the only practical solution is to give up on your filter preference and learn to like an espresso based drink so that you use the same machine.