We have been brewing Goat’s Ethiopian Sidemo medium-dark roasts for the last two days. 20g power : 225g of water : \~170g - 172g into the cup. We use the paper filter and swiss gold, which ensure a clean cup every time. The grind size was at the lower-end of the espresso range. We drink this as a black coffee. This morning, we brewed a couple of times. For the first cup, we poured 75% water in first, added the coffee, did a quick stir, added the remaining 25% water in a quick circle, covered and brewed for 30 mins. There was no change in the second cup except that we added all the water in first. Both cups were light and sweet marked with fruity citrus-cum-lemon grass for us. We can’t pick both of them apart except the first cup had a tiny bitter taste; despite the tiny bitter notes, the first cup was also excellent. One thing, which I had learnt from Mark @"MWJB"#139 was the brews can’t possibly give an over-extracted coffee. Therefore, the tad bitter note might have been the result of adding a quarter of the water after sinking the crust. In short, we definitely prefer the second cup.

I keep on playing with brewed, but feel I never really get the most from it somehow. I have a Clever, a cafetière, a Moka pot, a Trinity One https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trinity-Coffee-Company-TCC0002-Brewer/dp/B077YDZ6X3 although mine was the original Kickstarter one which was in walnut and a lot more expensive! At some point, I must get to grips with this system!

Don't stir - this can cause bitterness without causing over extraction. (Guess where/ who I learned that from!) For my CCD I pour most of the water in first, then add the coffee (32 on Niche), then wet all the coffee with the remaining water. I then cover and leave for 30mins - 1hr 30mins (longest I can get away with depending on size of brew and it be a decent temp to drink in a pre-heated cup.)

@"LMSC"#p1100 On a side note, I've just received an email from Clumsy Goat asking about my experience with these beans, just wondered if you had too. I told them I enjoyed the beans but was a little disappointed that the "roasted on" date was hidden in the batch number and that they were over a month old when I received them. There are plenty of roasters out there who do better so I would have to think twice before placing another order with them!

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p1110 You are correct; we should not stir. Thx. My bad. I should have been careful with my choice of words. Stirring is not a correct expression; I meant, just sinking / wetting the coffee. I do not bother dissolving clumps. It’s a long brew anyway. @"Flat_Eric"#p1111 No. we have not received any emails. They might not as we have had a few email exchanges. We thanked their frankness / openness re-the roast date and also shown a deep appreciation of their willingness to refund or send replacements. We firmly rejected their generosity as it’s not fair and appropriate to take advantage of their kindness. We didn’t like the Peru for reasons set out earlier and the Ethiopian is very good. We will move on once the current bag is exhausted. @"dfk41"#p1105 I find clever brewing is easier than any other brews - Aero Press, French Press and Indian filter,… With a SwissGold on top of the paper filter, we can do as fine as possible until we get silts into the cup. 😊

@"LMSC"#p1114 I put the paper filter inside the Swiss Gold! Please explain

@"dfk41"#p1115 I put the paper filter in the Clever first, the SwissGold on top, fill with water right off the boil and drain it just before I am ready to brew.

@"dfk41"#p1115 The SwissGold on top lets the liquid run off and around the coffee bed, the paper catches the finer particles, which will give us a cleaner cup. The SwissGold alone will result in a cup of mud :-) I learnt these from Mark.

@"LMSC"#p1117 Well, thats what I will try, next time I dust it off! Compared to an espresso shot, what grind lever would you aim for matey?

@"dfk41"#p1119 Earlier, I had started at the upper end of the espresso grind; I then realised we can grind really finer and go towards the lower end. The JX pro espresso range is 1.2-1.6. On my JX pro, my current brew setting is at 1.3 rotations within my preferred 1.3-1.4 range for the brews. The silts start kicking-in mostly below 1.3 for me. My espresso typical start point for a new bag of beans is at 1.4; I settle a few clicks plus or minus with a few shots. The clever, using a combo of paper filter and SwissGold, really surprised me how fine we can go. One tip, while brewing, I wrap the clever with something like the image below. It keeps the brew warmer at around \~56C. https://imgur.com/a/wC9YbzC

@"LMSC"#16 - Your CCD wrapping is funkier than mine! I also put a cork trivet top and bottom. I do think the one on top helps a little bit. I also made a template for a proper wrap, but then life happened. If I am doing a long steep I am at 32 on the Niche, which is a long way north of espresso. I find people's different grind settings fascinating. Would like to do a side-by-side one day, taste the difference. I find the CCD the simplest in a comparison between aeropress and french press, although I don't have an insulated press. Do you find the swiss gold makes a marked difference over just a paper filter? I have not got one yet, but if there are gains to be had in the cup, I'll put it on the list!

Clever brew

PortafilterProcrastinator

LMSC I use tea towels at the moment, but if a size 6 filter sticks out the top then the water wicks away during the steep.

It isn’t a common problem, only when I’m trying to squeeze the max possible brew size into the CCD.

LMSC

Caste Iron Guatamela washed - medium light / medium

The grind is the espresso size, which is too fine for this bag as bitterness has seeped in. The bitterness is mild, which I can lose backing up to the right-side of the grind.

225g of all water in first and 20g of powder and seeped for 1 hour. I wrapped it with the Primark blanket. I was surprised the coffee was quite warm at 59C even after an hour.

It is a very nice coffee ; had fruity acidity / flavours like Nectarine / Peach. It was sweet and could pick up a bit of chocolate flavour / after taste. The cup was very clean and there were no silts.

There were no honeysuckle (think jasmine and honey) aroma after 1 hour of steeping :-)

Using MWJB’s scoring, I would give this 6. It looses a couple of points for reasons of brew malfunctions - slight bitterness and not able to sink the crusts quickly. The powders were fluffier and floating a lot and it wasn’t easy to sink the crust as I had always done in the past for similar grind settings.

I will grind coarser the next time. It is certainly a V60 candidate.

MWJB

LMSC 6 (like a little) seems a bit harsh if it was “very nice”?

LMSC

MWJB 6 (like a little) seems a bit harsh

Indeed! It’s not fair, but I took away 2 for reasons mentioned above. Despite those two negatives, I did like the coffee. Hopefully, the next clever brew would fix the issues.

Btw, are Gautemalan beans not as dense as coffee from, for example Costs Rica (less soluble? ). It was really fluffier and most of it floated in the hot water.

Of course, variations in beans density with roast level, grind size (mass vs surface area of the grounds), age (~3 weeks old since roasted) and C02 can all make a difference.

The reason I ask is I do not remember any of the past brews seeing most of the grounds floating like this Gautemalan, although the grind sizes were almost similar!

MWJB

LMSC Costa Rica and Guatemala both tend to be on the lower end of solubility, I’ve never measured density.

Pompeyexile

First daft question of the day…..

What is a ‘Swiss Gold’ do I need one for my Clever Dripper and if so, where do I get one from?

MWJB

Swissgold filters are permanent metal filters, they used to come with a gold plated mesh, but seem to have transitioned to a silver metal in the last few years.

For long, fine, larger steeps they help retain the coffee bed above the filter paper (you use both) and liquid runs off around the grounds bed, for a quicker draw down & less silt in the cup. Best to preheat.

For smaller amounts there might not be enough liquid held above the filter mesh to let the grinds infuse in the water adequately. For short, coarse grind brews, I don’t bother with one.

Be aware that there are similar filters from other brands, some have a different heights and won’t allow the lid to close on the Clever, so only use the Swissgold KF4 in the large Clever.

LMSC

Smith Street Guatemala Natural - cup score 87.

Nice coffee after a few ok / standard cups. Sweet and mild acidity as in Peach and Strawberry.

30g powder, about 340g water and got 277.4g liquid into the pre-heated cup. Brewed for about 50 mins.

I will grind a little coarser next time. I plan to brew on V60.

Pompeyexile

I’ve asked Santa as he flies over Switzerland to stop off and bag me a filter. After all, I’ve been a good boy and not been at all well…cough!…cough!…Parp!😉

LeefromFoundryCR

in response to @LMSC over on another thread…..

Yes, we use a brew sheet for each coffee on the brew bar where we would record the TDS, EY%, Brew Ratio, Dose and EK setting for the coffee that we are using. At the moment, we are using frozen doses of a Colombian coffee from Jairo Arcila. It tasted better at a fairly low EY%, around 18.4 from memory, with a slightly coarser grind setting than we would usually use.

MWJB

LeefromFoundryCR it might be handy to let us have the brew parameters/time in this thread.

I’m assuming the 18.4% is via the immersion calculation? If so, I tend to find 19-23% a bit of dead spot and aim more 16% to 18% on short, coarse steeps, 24%+ on long, fine steeps.

LeefromFoundryCR

MWJB I can’t say I’ve really thought about the the ‘dead spot’ thing as such but now that I do think about it, we tend to prefer fairly low EY% brews on the Clever generally. It’s harder to get higher yields in shorter brew times with that particular brewer in my experience. That’s okay though as different coffees suit different approaches, a good reason to have options right?

MediumRoastSteam

For those who have a V60 or an aeropress… would I get the same result as a clever if I, for example, make a French press and then pour it through an aeropress or V60 filter?

Or even, to make things simple, with the same proportion of coffee to water and the same grind as clever, and the same steep time, use the “inverted” aeropress method?

LeefromFoundryCR

MediumRoastSteam For those who have a V60 or an aeropress… would I get the same result as a clever if I, for example, make a French press and then pour it through an aeropress or V60 filter?

You’d get a ‘clean’ coffee but you might struggle to completely replicate a Clever Dripper brew. That’s because you would struggle to get a consistent drawdown by just pouring everything into a filter.

The problem with the Aeropress in general for me is that there are plenty of particles which escape around the filter paper and into your brewing vessel. These will result in a less clean brew. Not necessarily bad, just different.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Or even, to make things simple, with the same proportion of coffee to water and the same grind as clever, and the same steep time, use the “inverted” aeropress method?

First, an interesting question. IMO, this requires a side by side experimentation, tasting and measuring the EY for a chosen bag.

Second, I wonder why did you ask?

Third, as LeefromFoundryCR advised, your extraction may not be as clean as clever. One may address it by stop pressing the AP as soon as you see a tiny bit of the dry bed. Will the powder still escape? May be.

Please note that I always do a long steep, use paper and Swiss Gold and the upper end of the espresso grind for clever. I use 20g on 225g water for clever to avoid a weak extraction or get a cup of similar strength to the V60. This ratio is based on @MWJB’s research! I have tried the usual 60g/l on clever and steeped longer. It is nice but the cup is a lot weaker for me.

Four, replicating clever on AP faces another challenge as clever uses water first (ex: 2/3rd) and powder later method.

Finally, I am thinking if the AP may end up giving a stronger cup than the clever. One will have to measure the EY to compare. 😊

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC Four, replicating clever on AP faces another challenge as clever uses water first (ex: 2/3rd) and powder later method.

Why? Using the aeropress inverted method, I can pour water first and add the powder after, right?

LMSC Second, I wonder why did you ask?

Because… I don’t have any filter brewing gear, so I would like to buy one of them as I would like to experiment with different waters. Not an easy task with an espresso machine :-)

LMSC this requires a side by side experimentation, tasting and measuring the EY for a chosen bag.

Agree on the side by side, but I’d leave the EY out. Taste should be enough.

LMSC Finally, I am thinking if the AP may end up giving a stronger cup than the clever.

Maybe - but the only reason would be as per Lee’s explanation of grinds escaping from the side given everything else equal.

LeefromFoundryCR

MediumRoastSteam Maybe - but the only reason would be as per Lee’s explanation of grinds escaping from the side given everything else equal.

yeah, I would expect any change in strength will be marginal. As always, any method that gives you a brew you like, consistently, is a good method to use.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam Using the aeropress inverted method, I can pour water first and add the powder after, right?

Oh yes! I completely forgot that. Haven’t seen my AP since getting the lever. 😂

They are cheap; you can definitely get the V60 - £6 quids each for a plastic unit and 100 V60 filter papers respectively.

Clever - £20 for the clever brew, another £25 for Swiss Gold and a few pounds for the paper filter.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC - Good point re: prices. But don’t you need a fancy gooseneck kettle for V60?

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam No. You can get a basic 304 Stainless Steel Hob version for £15-£20. The only thing is not using the biggest burner.

I have this, which is not in stock in Amazon.

XIRGS Stainless Steel Stove Top Kettle, Camping Kettle for Gas Stove Suitable for Induction, Gooseneck Kettle with Thermometer (Capacity: 1.2 L, Silver)

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam This is a good deal, if you want electric

https://www.bodum.com/gb/en/11940-16uk-bistro?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_qnUl7G6_AIVT9PtCh0mAAgAEAQYAiABEgJZnPD_BwE

Amazon has one for £50 - electric. My stupid browser and amazon app won’t let me share the link.

MWJB

MediumRoastSteam Good point re: prices. But don’t you need a fancy gooseneck kettle for V60?

Drip is drip, if you want drip brewed coffee and you have a regular kettle, buy a different drip brewer to a V60 - Melitta, Wilfa pour over, Oxo pour over, Kalita wave all work very well without a gooseneck kettle. At the same grind size, brew size & ratio, you wouldn’t be able to pick out the different brewers. I use a V60 almost every day, but then I have (and did from early on) have a gooseneck, but it’s not essential if you use a more self regulating brewer.

Or, just stick with the Clever…😀

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