Chatting with our illustrious host this morning, and the topic of the price of beans in the future popped up. It may well be that some roasters are going to have to start selling more blends as the costs associated with single origins beans (profit margins for all those concerned in the process from the farmer to the wholesalers, transport, cost of roasting). Selling blends if done skilfully, may mean roasters can stabilise on price more than on SO beans. This maybe wide of the mark. What do you think? I was about to buy 2 kg of my favourite bean from a roaster i have always considered to be good value, but with postage it was north of £60.....too much for me! I am going to go back to a local roaster who charge around the £20 per kilo mark. They only sell blends but.........

@"dfk41"#p27897 I have been thinking in recent weeks if it is worth paying £40 - £50 for a KG when 2 can be had for the same amount or a little more than that for good coffee bags from a good roaster. When we add a standing discount for our forum members, the case is pretty compelling, is it not?

you ma see discounts go? luckily for now atleast, commercial energy being capped has helped, well it will when they decide what rates to charge, the pound turning to stone wont help

The way I see it… Everything is going up in price. Energy is at the base of the matrix. The Pound Sterling has just… errr…. plunged, so that's not going to make any imports cheaper, as most likely coffee is traded in USD. If roaster don't put their price up, they risk their business and the livelihood of everyone who depends on it. For me, it's more about drinking coffee for the taste of what I like than for the sake of drinking coffee (same goes for wine, beer, etc, etc). If the coffee I like gets prohibitively expensive, then I would simply not drink coffee, or at least try to find something I like and it's not so expensive. @"dfk41"#p27897 - Question: Do you enjoy the coffee from your local roaster?

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p27907 Yes, it is fine for my needs except knowing how it works, if they are selling for £20 per kg it is costing them £3 to £4. You know for that the beans are commodity level at best, but......blended in the hands of someone who knows his art, they can still be quite acceptable.......personally, I am finding it harder to justify spending £60 a pop on these beans. I will do it from time to time

@"dfk41"#p27910 Great post, btw. The devil mind will ask how many of us can tell a difference in blind tasting. We all understand why the prices of have gone up in recent times, perhaps not every where. But, some roasters’ are always priced at a high premium. There are a variety of reasons, which we all know of. Are they really worth the premium, except that we know they are good roasters selling some very good coffee. It doesn’t mean those roasters’ selling competitively priced coffee with a high cup score aren’t good. We have experiences of premium SO bags giving us meh cups and cheaper SO bags giving us a very nice coffee. I can understand @"MediumRoastSteam"#p27907’s logic. I can liken it to we skipping the high street coffee shops. In summary, the affordability, preference and taste are relative.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p27929 I think your second paragraph answers the questions from first paragraph. Affordability, taste and compromise for a lot of folks are what would dictate our choices. I also liked the most of coffee beans from Foundry and North Star. The Dark Arts is a recent addition. All are expensive. * Having paid £40 for a KG for some, it was a mixed bag - very good and average. * Certain competitively priced coffee beans at £22-24 from one roaster was as excellent as £40+ a KG bag. Cheaper doesn’t mean it is not good. Edit : Some of us can stay away from coffee for reasons you mentioned; others may not.

Price of beans

MediumRoastSteam

The point I’m trying to debate over is this: Would you keep drinking coffee using your expensive espresso coffee machine gear if what you normally like becomes too expensive? In other words, would you accept lowering your standards and accept that what you would drink is not really to your taste?

I’ll put it simply: I usually enjoy a well roasted light roast. I often buy from Foundry or Dark Arts, and they are not the cheapest. 1kg of the stuff I usually drink sets me back approx. £36-£40. Say inflation hit and that now cost £45-£60. Would I carry on drinking if I could afford it? Yes. Would I look elsewhere to see if I can source something that I like cheaper? Yes. Would I drink something that I don’t really enjoy because it’s cheaper, for the sake of drinking coffee? Probably not.

If you like drinking something that is a lot cheaper and enjoy the taste of it, then all is good.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I think your second paragraph answers the questions from first paragraph.

Affordability, taste and compromise for a lot of folks are what would dictate our choices. I also liked the most of coffee beans from Foundry and North Star. The Dark Arts is a recent addition. All are expensive.

Having paid £40 for a KG for some, it was a mixed bag - very good and average.
Certain competitively priced coffee beans at £22-24 from one roaster was as excellent as £40+ a KG bag. Cheaper doesn’t mean it is not good.

Edit :

Some of us can stay away from coffee for reasons you mentioned; others may not.

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam You sum me up nicely! Whilst I can enjoy the odd SO bean, I can equally as much enjoy a decent blended combo. It is not about lowering standards for me, but justifying the additional expense over drinking beans of lesser value, when I know my taste buds are not that discerning! If things were not as they currently are, with every item you look at rising in price on a weekly/monthly basis then I might not feel so bad. The problem with money, is that you can only spend it once! Now, what would be worrying is if the very cheap beans I bought this afternoon from a firm i have never heard of, prove to be acceptable!

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC Certain competitively prices coffee beans at £22-24 from one roaster was as excellent as £40+ a KG bag. Cheaper doesn’t mean it is not good.

dfk41 Now, what would be worrying is if the very cheap beans I bought this afternoon from a firm i have never heard of, prove to be acceptable!

Thanks both. This is exactly where I’m heading. I think we all agree that cheap doesn’t mean it’s not good. But… Imagine the beans that are currently “cheap” and you enjoy become expensive and it’s hard to justify. Would you then buy something that it is now within your price range, but you actually don’t enjoy? Would you then keep trying new roasters and presumably drinking the coffee even if you don’t like it? Or… Would you throw it away? Which then you might as well have bought the more expensive coffee in the first place?

LMSC

Thanks MRS

MediumRoastSteam Would you then buy something that it is now within your price range, but you actually don’t enjoy?

I know where you are going with this! 😃

No, we wouldn’t!

MediumRoastSteam Would you then keep trying new roasters and presumably drinking the coffee even if you don’t like it? Or… Would you throw it away?

We have a lot of choices with the roasters in the country. So, I like experimenting new roasters. It is risky as it can be a hit and miss, like Horsham (sounds familiar, is it not)? or some casuals 🤣

I used to buy a KG before. Having learnt the hard way, I prefer buying a small bag rather than getting stuck with a KG! 🤦‍♂️

No throwing away, under any circumstances!

However, I know there are some roasters I keep going back! Examples - Blackcat, Foundry, Django (they are ok but am choosy). :-)

dfk41

I have to say that I now tend to stick to roasters and beans I know I like. I have often bought stuff from the big names and been ever so disappointed with what turns up. That might be down to me……who knows?

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - I’m the same. I have a list of 2 roasters that I’d recommend to myself.

MWJB

I like this guy’s analogy to wine price v quality, coffee is similar, one bag at £7/200-250g might be great, the next just awful. But I have to say I am a bit surprised at what people see as ‘expensive’ - over the last few bags I’m paying on average £7/100g…it’s clearly not enough.
I’m not bothered about prices going up some if it sorts the wheat from the chaff, but paying through the nose for sub Illy (which I also drink almost daily) standard coffee is already tiring.

LMSC

MWJB what people see as ‘expensive’ - over the last few bags I’m paying on average £7/100g…it’s clearly not enough

Expensive is relative. Of course, it’s not justified as we don’t see an issue paying £2k for a machine and a grinder and have problems paying £50 for a pop.

The thing is this cost may be ok if some one were to drink a cup or two a day. However, it adds up very quickly for those drinking 4-6 cups a day per person at home.

With the current crisis, the family priorities can quickly change and one might start wondering if they can cut corners reducing the monthly outgoings for beans. Furthermore, beans costing the north of £40-£50 do not guarantee the quality and taste, which themselves are relative. :-)

We have seen disappointing expensive bags. Unfortunately, there is no common ground except we all want to drink some good coffee :-)

Rob666

You don’t have to pay a fortune for beans. We’ve found several that we like at around £17/kilo delivered. I’ve paid a lot more and have been disappointed.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Rob666 Are these SO or blends? Would you mind sharing?

I’ve bought exclusively from Django for about 6 months now due to quality vs price. Given all the other rising costs elsewhere I can’t justify spending more on coffee. If I focus on regions and notes (and altitude to an extent) I know I like I’m generally not disappointed.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC Furthermore, beans costing the north of £40-£50 do not guarantee the quality and taste, which themselves are relative. :-)

Neither does wine.

LMSC

MediumRoastSteam I have no understanding of wine! This is probably valid across the board.

MediumRoastSteam

LMSC This is probably valid across the board.

So true! Also, unfortunately, we (as humans in a capitalist society) tend to assume naively that, if something is more expensive, it has to necessarily be better (or tastier in this context).

Good old marketing. 😬

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam The price of beans (and wine) is generally set by supply and exclusivity. Look at real Jamaican Blue Mountain for example. The coffee it self, the one time I had it was ok, but because the harvest is often a few hundred kilos the price is crazy. If you came across the last known bottle of a certain Rothschild, the price is not set by the quality of what is in the bottle, but what it actually is. So many times I have had coffee beans from ‘respected’ roasters, only to think dear me. I gave up roasting years ago when I reached the conclusion that professional roasters did it better than I could!
This is an interesting topic though. To celebrate the UK leaving the EU I invited a forum member over for the night. To celebrate I bought a 250 gm packet of a bean called Wush Wush roasted by Rave. It was something like £25 per 250 gm. The tasting notes said pineapple and blow me, they were abssolutely spot on. I think my guest was delighted when I offered him the bag…..LOL. But, that is the only time I ever had a good experience with expensive beans, and before you start and tell me that £25 is not expensive, I know!
@MWJB Mark, you are undoubtedly an expert if your field therefore you can do justice to whatever you buy sir……I cannot!
PS I still use the Clever and Swiss Gold filter that kindly sent to me!

MWJB

dfk41 If an “expert” is somebody who needs a hundred attempts at the same thing before they get it right, you could well be correct! :-)

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 To celebrate the UK leaving the EU I invited a forum member over for the night. To celebrate I bought a 250 gm packet of a bean called Wush Wush roasted by Rave. It was something like £25 per 250 gm

I locked myself into a room and cried to bits. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍👍

On a serious note, I remember that coffee. I remember seeing the price. Insane. I think Salt Marsh from BB is also really expensive. I never tried though, because it’s too expensive, and there are cheaper coffee (around the £35 mark, roasted) which I really enjoy.

But to your point, you obviously tried the coffee, and didn’t like it. Which is fine and helpful, because if more “standard” coffee is what you enjoy, and that’s cheaper, then that works.

dfk41

MWJB Yep, when I need two hundred and still get no where!

CoyoteOldMan

MWJB That’s what expertise is, surely?

[Meant as a totally respectful and serious comment - I don’t think you take a hundred attempts at finding the right recipe for a new brew now, because you made the hundred (and hundreds) of attempts before. That’s why you are an expert.]

DavecUK

MWJB " As an inventor, Edison made 1,000 unsuccessful attempts at inventing the light bulb.

Inventions: Incandescent light bulb

P.S. I know about Joseph Swan, but I want to keep the Americans happy. Just like it was us who invented the electronic programmable computer and the Miles M.52, which was copied and became the Bell X1.