Hi all, So far have narrowed down search from upgrade my Rocket Cellini to below options: ECM Synchronika Quickmill Vetrano 2B Evo La Marzocco Linea Mini ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva Now the first two are standard E61 double boiler machines and the LMLM is a high end semi auto and the last one is a manual lever based machine with some features like boiler and steam. Hard to decide which to pick to make upgrade to my Rocket Cellini. My concern is support, reliability, ease of use and fun factor in pulling great shots and I make mostly milk based espresso drinks.

@"sacguy71"#p28375 Let me help you decide. 1. Where in the world are you? 2. How much is your budget (The LMLM is a lot more expensive than the others, at least in the UK); 3. Do you like the E61? 4. Do you care about fast warm up time? 5. Do you care about very precise and fast responsive temperature control? 6. Have you also considered the Lelit Bianca? 7. What do you like about the LMLM? 8. Have you ever used a lever machine? 9. Are you hands on when coming to maintenance of espresso machines? Would be interesting to know your rationale when narrowing down to those machines.

@"sacguy71"#p28375 In terms of ease of use and fun, I'd say that a lever is hard to beat. Then again, I'm biased (and I haven't really used any of the others).

@"sacguy71"#p28375 Not enough info but I would suggest changing the list a bit: 1. Lelit Bianca (Beats the Snycho easy spec wise and feature set) 2. ACS Vesuvius Evo Leva (Decent Lever machine in that price range) 3. Rocket R9 One (Near the LMLM price and get a better feature set). Using this one personnely after upgrading from a Lelit Bianca.

Only one machine on that list I'd choose

Bianca if E61 group, Evo if lever. BTW, there is a lever still available on our classifieds. It’s a steal at asking.

1/ northern California Sacramento area 2/ Budget under 10k but would prefer keep it below 5k if possible 3. yes it is fine 4/ yes want fast warm up time 5/ yes want control over those variables 6/ yes but heard complaints on build quality 7/ design and powerful steam and great quality machine 8/ no but I have a cheap Flair 58 coming tomorrow to test before spending on expensive lever machine 9/ not really but need to learn @"MediumRoastSteam"#p28376

Don't worry about Bianca build quality, I have 3 of them, 2 of which have no problems and one I have to unbox and set up. Lovely machines, as is the Vesuvius Evo Lever, if you want to enter lever land (genuine 15m warm up too).

@"sacguy71"#p28382 Bear in mind that a manual lever and a spring lever are rather different... certainly in terms of ease-of-use. I hope you'll enjoy using the Flair tomorrow!

@"DavecUK"#p28383 how is the steam power on the Bianca for frothing milk? Can it get nice microfoam?

> @"sacguy71"#p28385 how is the steam power on the Bianca for frothing milk? Can it get nice microfoam? @"Cuprajake"#144 can tell you more. I've actually done it myself (again, at Dave's!), and it's great. Same goes for the ACS Eva Leva, and, in all honesty, I'm sure all the other machines you listed are very capable of excellent microfoam too. That's the least of your worries!

Looking for next level espresso machine

Eiffel

sacguy71

If you want a lever with a shot timer for less than $/£/€ 10,000 this reduces your choices drastically, as the Nurri is the only machine that fits the bill (The ACS Evo Leva has a group pressure gauge which offers a way to consistently reach a given drink weight/coffee grounds weight… which is ultimately what matters, but it doesn’t have a timer).

Of course, you could add your own stick-on or magnetic timer and trigger it manually, but this option exists with every machine including the one you already have

chlorox

Eiffel

Just for claritys sake, the nurri also has a pressure gauge for the group head just like the acs vesuvius evo, only that it is mounted on the body of the machine rather than perched on tbe grouphead itself.

CoyoteOldMan

MackOT You cannot take the portafilter out while the lever is not done or you will get the “Sneeze”. You dot not want that.

You definitely do not want portafilter sneeze with a lever… but there is a way to eliminate or at least much decrease it: push down on the lever until the pressure gauge reads 0, then very carefully open the portafilter (wrapping a big towel around is still a sensible thing to do!).

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

I don’t really move fast enough in my coffee preparation to actually experience coffee sneeze because i am usually not in a hurry to make the second shot. If i am making a latte, by the time I finish steaming the milk, the pressure has already stabilised in the grouphead and the puck is dry.

sacguy71

Della Corte Mina looks awesome since can do all sorts of shots. But over 8k way expensive. So looking at some spring levers but no rush. Had response from ACS on the Vesuvius Evo Leva and Nurri as well as Salvatore. Will see how budget looks end of year. Got my beloved Rocket Cellini back all fixed up so can make lattes again.

chlorox

sacguy71

For pump machines, another interesting one that is coming out is the la san marco You but its liable to be at the same price range or more than the mina…

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox I don’t really move fast enough in my coffee preparation to actually experience coffee sneeze

Me neither! The only time I do the procedure I described above is when the machine is choking because I ground a new coffee too fine!

chlorox

MackOT

The La San Marco grouphead, double springs and the 54mm slimmer but deeper portafilter really do make a massive difference, don’t they? I have been using my Izzo Pompei that has the same grouphead design for more than a decade and enjoying the coffee it gives me without any issues whatsoever.

sacguy71

chlorox well I’m going to wait and save up for a while now at this point. I like the ACS and Nurri lever machines but lack of dealer support network here in the states would mean a lot of paying a local repair guy to fix issues.

chlorox

sacguy71

That’s a reasonable basis for making your decision…if you live in USA, then may I suggest considering the Izzo Alex Leva? It has much of the simplicity and toughness that makes the Pompei so great along with of course the same LSM double spring grouphead, and has a PID controller to control the temperature of the boiler directly. The Alex doesn’t have the ability to change the temperature of the grouphead directly nor the ability to adjust preinfusion pressure through the gear pump (evo) or rotary pump (nurri) nor a grouphead manometer but it does have established dealers in the States. My Pompei is even simpler than tbe Alex as it lacks a PID but it makes fantastic coffee.

CoyoteOldMan

sacguy71 lack of dealer support network here in the states would mean a lot of paying a local repair guy to fix issues

That is making the rather pessimistic assumption that there would be a lot of issues to repair - and that those issues would be severe enough to require a technician rather than a little DIY. So far, for the ACS that has not been the case, and the few Nurri users haven’t reported any significant problems either.

None of this takes away from chlorox ’s suggestion that you look at the Izzo line of lever machines.

Amberale

chlorox

The Valexia is even prettier and all Stainless Steel.
They do need to be plumbed in and they have a huge 5 litre boiler.

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Yes same here and I haven’t dared to grind too fine for thta very reason. That is probably where the left paddle feature that nurri leva has would come in rather useful. I haven’t tried the pressure normalisation technique of depressing the lever yet although I am sure it will work fine, but my shoulders would be very thankful for the option not to have to manipulate the lever to obtain that effect!

CoyoteOldMan

chlorox It takes unexpectedly little effort to pressure profile. In fact, so little that the problem is not putting too much force on the lever.

When you think how the lever works, it’s not surprising: it takes (say) 25 kg of force on the lever to load up the spring with the 250 kg (11 bar on a 54 mm basket). It will take 1/11 of that force, i.e. just over 2 kg to modify the pressure by 1 bar.

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

I wasnt acrually referring to pressure profiling but to yhe technoqie of relieving the pressure in the grouphead to be able to release the groupheas if the grind is too fine to choke the machine.

Unfortunately I have shoulder issues so the motion to pull the lever down can be painful to me though it may be completely fine to moat ppeople. HHowever that does not stop me from still preferring levers - once you have become used to the coffee from a good lever, those pump machines just don’t have the same appeal - not unless one were to spend truly stratospheric Slayer type money!

chlorox

Amberale

I agree - the Valchiria has style indeed! Having said that, the Pompei has a real impressive presence all its own and a Neopolitan look that makes your ki5xhen appear to be briefly transported to Naples when ever you look at it!

Cuprajake

@sacguy71

Just buy a machine from a us supplier like whole latte love or 1st choice.

Bianca will do you fine

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