Or in the case with Decent Espresso, not so decent. a friend bought a DE1 along with their smart scales 9 months ago. He decided he didn’t like the form factor so sold it unused to me Recently one of the power buttons, for activating the timer has stopped working I am on their Basecamp DL and see all the emails complaining about this and advice to stretch the spring to make it work again. I was told same by support but that didn’t work, it appears the PCB connector to the spring is faulty The follow up to that was “don’t worry, we only do 30 day warranty for accessories so you didn’t miss out by buying used as we don’t transfer warranties. Sounds like your scale is going to get worse over time” basically tough luck. We took £94 for this, know it’s a faulty design but screw you. I’m a massive tech lover and have been eyeing the DE1 for a long time but now looking at something for my inevitable upgrade. If I had bought new, as my friend did, wonder if there would be come back under UK Consumer Rights Act as an almost £100 scales shouldn’t fail so quickly

@"CoyoteOldMan"#p28741 This is why all ACS machines have 24 months warranty.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p28760 Manufacturers warranties and consumer law are different things.

Decent customer support.

DavecUK

simonc If selling from within UK or Europe, they would have to be honouring a 1 year warranty for scales not have a 30d accessory policy. No company has to make a warranty transferrable, although I think it’s only good practice to do so. After all it covers the machine not the owner. Kafatek also won’t allow warranty to be transferred on their products, there may be others.

As far as Decent sorting out issues under warranty, I am not aware of any problems cited on public forums? In fairness though, I don’t understand the mechanics of warranty service, presumably it has to be shipped back to them, or perhaps there is a UK service centre ?

P S. Presumably some repairs are on a parts supply basis to the user e.g. Vibe pump replacement etc.

simonc

DavecUK yes I understand the transferable warranty point but also as you say, they have had money from their product directly. It’s the same machine.

However the point that even if I bought direct I wouldn’t be covered is shocking.

LMSC

owner.

simonc Sorry about the issues you are having. Hope you can sort it out soon.

DavecUK After all it covers the machine

I was thinking the same until one of the largest home and business PC makers told me in writing that the warranty is voided if the native OS installed on their machine is replaced with something else!

MediumRoastSteam

simonc - Decent has a private forum, for members only. I wonder whether it’s worth the while raising awareness there, to a more specific audience?

The flip side, of course, is that they just kick you out under some sort of silly “rule” and delete your post for a good measure. But no point speculating.

Good luck.

CoyoteOldMan

There is an EU directive (2019/771) that provides for a minimum guarantee period of 24 months on goods sold in the EU

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm

The UK’s Consumer Rights Act 2015 does not specify a minimum guarantee period, but it makes repeated references to 6 months being a period during which the consumer has quite extensive rights…

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan This is why all ACS machines have 24 months warranty.

Cuprajake

^ transferable too

MediumRoastSteam

Interestingly…. If you buy an Apple product in the UK, it has a 1 year manufacturer warranty. If you buy a Google product, it has 2 years.

So I’m very confused by the 2 year directive. How is it enforced? If I buy an Apple product in the UK, would I be able to claim warranty if it breaks 18 months later?

Gagaryn

MediumRoastSteam Manufacturers warranties and consumer law are different things.

CoyoteOldMan

MediumRoastSteam The “problem” is that the first EU directive (1999/44) did not impose a minimum duration of the warranty. That directive was replaced in 2021 by the directive 2019/771 that imposes a 24 months minimum warranty, however by then the UK had left the EU… so we are left with the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which does not specify a minimum duration explicitly, but leaves it open (although the CRA does specify that within the first 6 months any fault is deemed to have been present at purchase, therefore the manufacturer/retailer has a much harder time escaping liability).

The 2019 EU directive (active from 2021) has been implemented in different ways within the various countries, and enforcement remains a country-level issue - I can tell you that for example getting a refund in Italy, particularly from a small retailer, remains a difficult matter even if the law explicitly allows it…

MediumRoastSteam

Gagaryn - I understand that. But does that mean therefore that, if I buy an iPhone and it breaks 18 months later, it is my consumer right to have it repaired by the retailer I bought it from (e.g.: Apple store)?

dfk41

MediumRoastSteam Apple have a history (if you are the original owner) of fixing things up to 3 years old and therefore outside a warranty claim. Not sure about phones but I have an Imac and a Macbook fixed by them

simonc

MediumRoastSteam Apple has. A page on their site that says local consumer regulations might provide cover longer than their warranty. It’s not the same coverage but yes they recognise your claim for repair for a product that should last longer than 18 months given how much it costs.

https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/

DavecUK

CoyoteOldMan Are you thinking of a retailer with a name of a cafe named after Italy?

CoyoteOldMan

DavecUK No, not particularly - though I’m sure they are not an exception in this regard…

coffeealex

My understanding of warranties and having experience of dealing with matters via UK legislation, is that there is not a defined period of recourse. If you buy an item in the UK you have recourse under the sale of goods Act 1979 whereby goods have to

as described
of satisfactory quality
fit for purpose

The phrase that was commonly used was that goods had to be of “merchantable quality”. So when considering how long a warranty is don’t be fooled by what the retailer tells you ie 1 year, 2 years etc. The question a judge would ask if it went to court is one of reasonableness. So ask yourself would I expect the goods to last that amount of time? So 30 days is not worth the paper its written on and even 1, 2 or 3 years can be challenged. Your recourse in law will always be with the retailer and not the manufacturer. Retailers will try to stick to their one, two year etc, but take my word for it you can challenge it if you do it the right way. I have managed to do so on more than one occasion. You cannot ask for a refund if you just change your mind and whether you are entitled to a refund or repair on faulty items will depend on how long you have had it. There are some extra provisions under the distance selling regulations if you change your mind within a set time. Don’t forget also that if you pay with a credit card and the total value is over £100 you will have recourse under the consumer credit Act whereby your credit card company are legally bound to act on your behalf where there is a problem. This will apply even if you only paid a deposit, provided the item total value is over 100. In summary warranties can be challenged no matter what their length are, provided it is deemed ‘reasonable’

tompoland

I’ve had nothing but superb support from Decent so I’m sorry to hear about your experience. I’m in Austraia so I’m not qualified to comment on UK law however it sounds like the product was purchased from Decent directly, being in Hong Kong so my guess would be that it won’t be covered by UK law.

Please persist with Decent’s support. You may need to explain potitely why their recommendation is unacceptable but most people seem to walk away happy enough. I hope you do too.

dfk41

The simple point to come out of this, is if you buy premium products then you have the right to expect premium backup. I think this is an excellent reason never to buy this sort of equipment from overseas and even though Decent choose not to support this forum, I am certain that if I was their CEO for the sake of goodwill I would sort it out, without issue

coffeealex

dfk41 I would like to think you would get good customer support whatever the value of the item. If the company is based abroad I would also always be a little hesitant at purchasing unless I was familiar with them as can be tricky to rectify matters from a jurisdiction point of view.

Del_UK

I nearly purchased a Decent a few months ago, but was put off by a story of someone who purchased directly from Decent and had a similar issue.

I would say we are spoilt in the UK with our consumer rights compared to the rest of the world, but I think it’s a bare minimum to expect a year out of most products.

coffeealex

Del_UK I would say we are spoilt in the UK with our consumer rights compared to the rest of the world

I think it is not so much that we are spoilt in the UK with our consumer rights, as Europe has also quite high standards. The main difference here is that doing something about it is much easier and effective i.e. small claims court, ombudsman, CAB etc