Hi, all. My Lelit Elizabeth v3 is around 3 months old now, and has started to behave a little strangely with regard to pressure. If I put in the blind basket, then engage the pump (no preinfusion, and it's been an hour or so since last use), the pressure spikes up to around 11 bar, then drops quickly to around 10 and holds. If I then do this again very soon after the first time, the pressure will only go to maybe 9.5 bars and hold. Then on the third such run, and all subsequent runs in this sequence, it will just go to 9 and hold there. Something very similar happens with coffee in the portafilter, though the pressures there decline during the shot as expected. I have found on other message boards that a few others have also had this problem, but I haven't really found any solution. One person suggested adjusting the OPV, which I had already done long before this issue arose to set it to 9 from the factory default of 10. I did adjust it again just to see, and it did not seem to help. In fact, when I adjusted it I set it to around 8.5 bars (as the pressure it gives after several runs in a row with the blind basket at least), but the next day it was back to its previous level and behavior, as if the OPV adjustment had undone itself. Is this a case of a bad OPV? How difficult is it to change out the OPV entirely?

> @"Pygmalion"#p1227 Is this a case of a bad OPV? How difficult is it to change out the OPV entirely? it's not difficult, but it's very unlikely that the expansion valve (OPV) has gone bad. If it had you would probably be getting other sumptoms. For the OPV to cause the behaviour you're describing, it would have to be stiffer and open later for the first shot, then open a bit further when the pressure drops to 10 bar. Then as you do more shots…it is loosening up. That' not really normal behaviour for that type of valve. If it was sticky, then usually it would jam up on other shots, possibly randomly…it's also very hard for it to stick. As you can see, the only bit that moves is the pad, held by the spring against the port. There is not much to stick or jam. The only par that could is the relatively loose fitting metal bit with a pad. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/fX9CLwu.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/fX9CLwu.png[/IMG] From your description, the behaviour seems to follow a consistent pattern, which would indicate another cause. I'm just not sure what at the moment?

@"DavecUK"#p1229 Thanks for the detailed reply DavecUK (BTW, I'm using your advanced parameters for the Elizabeth; thanks!). I wonder what could cause an issue like this, then? Could it be a temperature thing? That is, the first shot might be hotter (if I haven't done a purge, which I often don't), then subsequent ones in somewhat rapid succession are a little cooler, etc. Would this make the pressure behave in this way? My understanding of the OPV is that it sets an upper limit on the pressure, and that it should never rise above this if the OPV is working correctly. Of course, that's only the pressure at the OPV itself, which is not directly what the pressure gauge is reading (pump pressure?). So, if the OPV is not the problem, then it could be the gauge I guess, or it could be that somehow the pressure in the system where the gauge is reading is higher than the OPV in some strange, consistent-ish way. Anyone else having similar behavior?

@"Pygmalion"#p1238 In a rotary pumped machine, odd things can happen because the water goes into a sealed system through a 1 way valve. The expansion valve in that sealed system is set to 12 to 14 bar. In your system it's the expansion valve as you correctly say controlling the pressure, so there is an upper limit….not really sure…am cogitatingt. I even though perhaps air in the capillary tube, but that wouldn't case the problem you're getting.

Morning all, I noticed this morning that I have the exact same thing happen! Preheated for about 40 mins, purged for 3-5 seconds out of the hot water tap, waited a minute or 2, puled a shot with a 10 second preinfusion at 2 bar, after the 10 seconds it shot up to 10-10.5 bar before dropping back to 8.5. Subsequent shots only reached 8.5 bar after PI (I did another 2, one for my wife, the other for 'science', aka my second double before 0700 what could go wrong). The strange thing is, the timings were all exaclty the same, 16g in, 33 out in 33 seconds. I'm wondering if it's more of an issue with the display then with the valve? I've possibly got some friends coming over tomorrow for a pre/post run brew so if I do more then 3 shots I'll pay close attention to the needle and report back...

I've thought about what might be happening by imagineering how I this could be created if one wanted to do so. and looking at the way the Elizabeths were made (factory photos of first production run…I can't see how it can happen, or be made to happen, unless i'm missing something. The repositioning of the expansion valve is still within the sealed brew area, and they changed it for a much better and reachable/adjustable valve. The V2 I had which I modified to a V3 still; has the old valve, as you can see from my review photos, and hydraulically is in essentially the same position (if not physically) https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/lelit-elizabeth/ So here is the image, just to orient people 1. Expansion valve controlling brew pressure max 2. Manometer take-off for pressure gauge 3. Autofill solenoid for steam boiler, opens to fill steam boiler 4. Exit port from ring group to vent solenoid 5. Vent solenoid, opens at end of shot. As you can see 1, 2 and 4 , all form part of the sealed brew circuit. The expansion valve is directly connected to the boiler, whatever pressure is experienced by the coffee, the same pressure is seen by 1, 2 and 4. The other numbered components take no part in this. The component under the autofill solenoid (3) is what does the steam preinfusion and incidently takes part in the clever way the machine does hot water. This component can't have any impact as it still only feeds into the same sealed brew circuit controlled by the expansion valve. This means any thermal expansion of water would be controlled ultimately by the expansion valve. My only possible conclusion is perhaps a shock wave caused by any slight airspace and water hammer due to closing of valves? **Perhaps someone could try switching of bloom phase and steam preinfusion, just have a straight shot…then see if it happens** [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/B9miMjc.jpeg]

Do you mean turn off the steam boiler or just not have any preinfusion? If so I got it just now with just a stright shot, no 10 second bloom, just 8.5 bars. It still spiked up to about 10 bars and the second shot rose to 8.5 and stopped.

> @"Del_UK"#p1323 Do you mean turn off the steam boiler or just not have any preinfusion? If so I got it just now with just a stright shot, no 10 second bloom, just 8.5 bars. It still spiked up to about 10 bars and the second shot rose to 8.5 and stopped. Everything off, probably even steam boiler (even though it shouldn't matter)…but certainly both preinfusion functions (one is referred to as bloom phase). Effectively turning it into a dumb machine. If it still does it, more evidence for a water hammer effect due to air…well that's the theory. ***P.S. If you turn off steam boiler…wait until it's below 100C***

Thanks for all the continued feedback and interesting information, everyone. Also glad (sort of) to hear I'm not alone. DavecUK, this happens even when using no preinfusion of any kind, and also with steam boiler off and cool.

I will keep an eye on mine. I never noticed this. But then again, I only have one coffee in the morning, and one in the afternoon. If there’s any testing I could do, please just let me know. 👍

@"Pygmalion"#p1333 If that is the case, I can only assume it must be a transient water hammer effect type of thing due to air? I would expect it to have no impact on the shot. Any chance of video of it doing it?

Lelit Elizabeth pressure spiking/inconsistent

dmau9600

colamj53x did you happen to get a pic of the new valve before installing it, specifically the valve seat?

DavecUK

dmau9600 did you happen to get a pic of the new valve before installing it, specifically the valve seat?

pff…you know the answer to that 🤣

colamj53x

dmau9600 aaahhh…no; didn’t think about it to be honest. I know it was different to the old valve, but didn’t pull it apart. After spending 30m and 3 blisters getting the tube off, I was just happy to get it back together..

rayanu

Hello everyone, I also encountered the same problem with OPV valve but I didn’t realize it until I read this topic and I also tried the blind test. I am struggling with inconsistent back-to-back shots for months. This morning I received a new OPV valve from Lelit Romania. it seems to be the new model because it looks a little changed on the inside. In a few days I will be able to change it and come back with impressions. Post some pictures with the new OPV valve open maybe @DavecUK can tell me where it is necessary to apply molycote 111 in the new conditions. It looks like the interior is completely changed. Thank you all.

DavecUK

rayanu A very very very, thin smear on moving parts and the pad won’t hurt…

dmau9600

rayanu this is the new valve then? I can definitely see how they changed the shape of the valve seat to remove the play and prevent the side-to-side movement.

Thank you for posting!!

rayanu

Thanks @DavecUK. It is ready lubricated and ready for installation. I hope the molycote 111 doesn’t make it difficult for the pad to move. I put very very little and still it looks quite viscous. In other words, a threadlock must be placed on the ¼ "thread

DavecUK

rayanu On the smaller thread, just use PTFE tape when you screw it into the machine.

rayanu

Good idea, that’s what I’m going to do. thanks

rayanu

Everything returned to normal. The manometer needle is at 9.5 bar with a blind filter. I checked at least 7 times and I couldn’t believe that the pressure didn’t fluctuate anymore.

dmau9600 indeed that is the new model valve.

I will watch for a week to see how it behaves and come back with details. Thanks

Inspector

Wondered if anyone contacted Bella Barista to get the new valve? Mine also got worse recently. Adjusted it to 9.5 bars last weekend, it creeped up to 11 bars again for the first shot.

MediumRoastSteam

I’ve been looking at mine as well…

My machine is one of the first V3s ever produced, dated late June 2020.

My first shot always start with pressure 9.5bar. Subsequent ones, on that session, are always bang on 9bar.

Whether it’s the same issue you guys are having I do not know, - or… Is it an issue at all? - but worthwhile documenting it.

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam I don’t think that’s an issue, 1.5 /2 bar jump is though, which is what I was having

rayanu

MediumRoastSteam I would say that the problem also exists with your elisabeth. That’s what he did to me before I changed the valve. the first shot went to 11 bar and then the next ones stabilized at 9.5-10 bar. after changing the valve with the new one, all 7 test shots with blind filter were dead on at 9.5 bar. Document yourself and see if it’s worth changing yours too.

MediumRoastSteam

rayanu - There’s some difference between 9.5bar and 11bar… Compared to 9.0bar and 9.5bar.

I’ll keep an eye though. I’ve still have a few months left on the warranty.

JahLaza

Mine started to drift a little so I contacted my retailer a couple of weeks ago seeking a replacement valve. According to my seller, Lelit still deny any knowledge of this issue, I repeatedly informed them that it is a known issue. My retailer agreed to send me a replacement valve if I covered the postage costs which I am grateful for. They said they got it through their Lelit rep in Germany. So, I wanted to post an update here to show you folks what the replacement looks like. The only significant difference I can see is the cap - hopefully the pic will show it’s not round but shaved all round, making it hexagonal. I will apply some molykote before installation

dmau9600

JahLaza when you installed the new valve, does the new hexagonal seat shape remove the play inside the housing that the original valve had?

I received a new valve, but it’s the same style as the old one, the valve seat rattles around inside the housing and the indent on the seat is way off center again.

JahLaza

Just to give an update on this. I installed the new valve last night and adjusted to just above 9 bar. Pulled a coffee this morning and it is behaving much better. The original valve (even after our temporary solution) would shoot above the adjusted set point by 0.5 bar or more and relax to your set point after. That didn’t bother me too much but now it gently ramps up to the set point and remains there so feels like a much improved situation. Not sure if this would even make a difference in taste (maybe psychologically!!!) but I guess if it disimproved any it wouldn’t take much and you know you have a properly functioning valve. Nice learnings for a relative newbie like me though regarding this part of the machine

MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza The original valve (even after our temporary solution) would shoot above the adjusted set point by 0.5 bar or more and relax to your set point after. That didn’t bother me too much but now it gently ramps up to the set point and remains there so feels like a much improved situation.

That’s very interesting, as this is exactly what mine does. I never thought much of it, as it never bothered me and I simply assumed it was just normal. Let us know how you get on after a couple of weeks if you are still using your Elizabeth.

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam a couple of weeks if you are still using your Elizabeth

Depends on DHL!! Yeah I’ll be using it for a week at least but my dad will be the new owner so it will be possible to keep an eye on it. I’ll put up a video in the morning when I recommence the coffee intake

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam here you go. Ignore the length of the shot I’m on a Kenyan light so very fine grind and long pre infusion.

JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam Let us know how you get on after a couple of weeks if you are still using your Elizabeth.

Am at my parents where the Elizabeth is. So it has been about a month and it’s still working same as the video I posted earlier here, which is perfect. I applied a little molykote when installing the new valve so it seems to be working fine, as you will see from my earlier video here it’s a nice smooth ramp up to the setpoint

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