Rather than cluttering the "V60" thread, here are some links to Kruve sifting results, feel free to ask any questions if anything isn't clear. Can Gencer has some Kruve data here that's easy to highlight & drop in/out plots for comparison (by clicking, or double clicking on the results you want to highlight/eliminate). https://cangencer.github.io/cumulative.html https://cangencer.github.io/noncumulative.html

Here are also a few results with ASTM 600 & 1180 sieves. [URL=https://i.imgur.com/Sx0FuGD.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Sx0FuGD.png[/IMG][/URL] Points to note are that as you go coarser with the same grinder, the % captured between the sieves decreases. In that repect Feld, Niche & Wilfa flat are not different enough to be viewed as different. The only one that stands out is the Porlex (but this still makes tasty brews when dialled in...if you can tolerate the extremely slow laborious grinding).

A cautionary tale regarding muddling Kruve & "microns" (ASTM/ISO/Tyler). This is not a determination that 700 & 1600 Kruve give similar results as 600um & 1180um, but just to show Kruve & "microns" are not interchangeable... [URL=https://i.imgur.com/IcXyQS0.png][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/IcXyQS0.png[/IMG][/URL]

Hi @"MWJB"#139, I have recently started brewing coffee using fresh light roasted beans and I have learnt a lot by scanning all your posts. First of all, thanks a lot for all the information shared! My grinder is a Niche Zero. I mainly use Clever Dripper, Aeropress and V60 02, planning to buy a Kalita Wave 185. I have a few questions that I hope to learn from you: 1. How big of impact does the filter have? I am using Kalita 103 filter for Clever Dripper, single original filter for Aeropress and original filter for V60 02. 2. In your [Grind references sheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-SFk1gUI_KtBNcdvdGjcptQeRhZZNwHq6RlKfVtbAI/edit#gid=1832218036), the [Kalita Wave 185 (13.5:224, 25g bloom) recipe](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-SFk1gUI_KtBNcdvdGjcptQeRhZZNwHq6RlKfVtbAI/edit#gid=651659669&range=A17:AT17) has a noticeably high average score (8.17), I am wondering what makes it so good compare other brew methods like v60? Also, what do you mean by 'shake' in this recipe? I am trying to learn 4 recipes from your sheets: 1. [Kalita Wave 185 (13.5:224, 25g bloom)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-SFk1gUI_KtBNcdvdGjcptQeRhZZNwHq6RlKfVtbAI/edit#gid=651659669&range=A17:AT17) 2. [Hario V60 02 (18:270, no stir at bloom)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-SFk1gUI_KtBNcdvdGjcptQeRhZZNwHq6RlKfVtbAI/edit#gid=88025033&range=A10:AT10) 3. [Aeropress](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-SFk1gUI_KtBNcdvdGjcptQeRhZZNwHq6RlKfVtbAI/edit#gid=1832218036&range=A9:AT9) 4. [Clever Dripper (fast)](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1p-SFk1gUI_KtBNcdvdGjcptQeRhZZNwHq6RlKfVtbAI/edit#gid=1483272121&range=A9:AQ9) I know this might be too much to ask but is there any chance that you can share the Niche Zero grind reference settings for these four recipes. Or do you recommend me to get a Kruve so that I can calibrate my grinder? Thanks again!

@"JJJJJamie"#p31489 I don't like Chemex white papers for filter brewing (but I do like them for polishing immersion brews, or for Clever). I use the white Kalita papers (101 & 155/185), Rombouts/Filtropa for truncated cones (Melitta style/Clever). I didn't know there were paper options other than original for Aeropress...I think I probably have enough original AP papers to last me the rest of my days!😀 If you notice a consistent, negative difference with a certain paper, then certainly think about using something else. Kalita 185, 13.5:224, 25g bloom, 8.17 score - I wouldn't read too much into that, a lucky run of coffees when doing those brews? I got the same score with V60 01 bloom & 35g every 20s with a Rhino grinder, and even got an average of 8.00 in a test with a Swan blade grinder. Brewer & grinder are not going to be driving those differences. I don't have an exact equivalent setting for the Niche at 12% 400 Kruve. or 29% 600um ASTM, for the Kalita recipe. I'd rather come up with a different recipe for the Kalita, then you can use the same grind for all 4 recipes. Say 20g/20s in 10sec pours to 220g? I'll give it a go when my next bag arrives. I would be around 93 on the Niche for Hario V60 02 (18:270g), maybe use the same grind for Aeropress (try knocking 15s of the brew time?) & Clever recipes (Clever needed to be a tad finer than what I used anyway). Kruve seem to be changing the stock fitment sieves from time to time, but yes, this would be a useful, if rarely used, tool. I could sift some more samples if you could only get a 500 as the nearest.

Here's the "shake" with the Kalita 185... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkQTo1Fw0MY&t=41s

@"MWJB"#p31540 Thanks a lot for the reply! I just finished a brewing strictly following your Aeropress recipe and my partner is extremely happy with the result. :) I am trying to develop my tasting skill for coffee and build a score sheet for my brew methods, but currently I can only taste sourness and bitterness in my coffee… To dial in a new bean, my understanding based on the posts in this forum is: control all the other variables and only change the grind size based on the taste of coffee. If changing grind size still cannot give me a good result, in what order do you suggest changing other variables like dose-water ratio, bloom time, etc. > @"MWJB"#p31540 I’ll give it a go when my next bag arrives. Thanks again, and I am looking forward to it. > @"MWJB"#p31540 I would be around 93 on the Niche for Hario V60 02 (18:270g) In your recipes, what does 93 mean for Niche Zero? It shows only from 0-50 on the machine. > @"MWJB"#p31540 Kruve seem to be changing the stock fitment sieves from time to time, but yes, this would be a useful, if rarely used, tool. I could sift some more samples if you could only get a 500 as the nearest. My Kruve sifter is on the way, I think this is the only way to calibrate grind settings. Mine comes with 300, 500, 800, 1100, and 1400μm sieves. > @"MWJB"#p31541 Here’s the “shake” with the Kalita 185… The videos are super helpful, subscribed!

> @"JJJJJamie"#p31545 I am trying to develop my tasting skill for coffee and build a score sheet for my brew methods, but currently I can only taste sourness and bitterness in my coffee… > > To dial in a new bean, my understanding based on the posts in this forum is: control all the other variables and only change the grind size based on the taste of coffee. If changing grind size still cannot give me a good result, in what order do you suggest changing other variables like dose-water ratio, bloom time, etc. I don't dial in beans, I dial in the method. Brewed coffee isn't that finicky. I don't make changes based on one bean/coffee (unless truly awful and due to something other than a bad roast). I make a few coffees at one recipe, then think about whether they have a common fault & what I might do to correct it. For pourover/drip, I might change the amount of water poured for a 1 cup brew by +/- 10g (just in the last pulse) to see if less more extraction improves it. If a few brews of the same recipe seem under, I'll tighten up the grind for the next few. I don't think bloom time is critical enough to have a big impact, other than if grinding very fine you might bloom longer, if you are coarse & pouring in a lot of pulses you don't really need to anything different for the first pour/bloom.

> @"JJJJJamie"#p31545 In your recipes, what does 93 mean for Niche Zero? It shows only from 0-50 on the machine. Set your calibrated grinder to 50, make a second grind marker with tape/tippex/point at "0". This second mark is now in effect "50", to get to 93 turn your new marker to 43. 43+50=93.

@"MWJB"#p31558 Thank you! I didn't know I need to grind so coarse…

> @"JJJJJamie"#p31545 My Kruve sifter is on the way, I think this is the only way to calibrate grind settings. Mine comes with 300, 500, 800, 1100, and 1400μm sieves. Use 500 & 1400

Sifting brewed coffee grinds

MWJB

PortafilterProcrastinator I use 0.01g scales but you can sift 10-20g so give it a go with 0.1g (check they are not really 0.3-0.4g scales that read to a decimal place, by seeing how sensitive they are bean by bean).

Use 500 Kruve in the bottom, biggest you have in the top. Shake side to side for 2min, with frequent taps to the side & downward.

The finest grinds I have used for brewed were just under 25% passing through 400, So I’d guesstimate around 20% at 500.

Sure, let me know how you get on.

MWJB

MWJB So I’d guesstimate around 20% at 500.

Oops, got that back to front, more like 25-30% at 500.

PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB Thanks Mark.

I’ll let you know how I get on with the 500 for v60.

Plan is to clean out the niche and sift 93, then I’ll see where I’m at on the F47. Then I’ll see whether running a few kgs through changes anything.

MWJB

PortafilterProcrastinator I’ll let you know how I get on with the 500 for v60.

Just to be sure, you’re just using the 500 to see what the grind setting is, rather than discarding any grinds.

PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB Just the grind setting yes.

Once I’m familiar with the process then I will also note down distribution, to compare my niche to F47.

PortafilterProcrastinator

So I finally found time to do my first sift. Potentially interesting results - or I did something wrong.

19.9g @ 93 on Niche (50+43) | 500Kruve at the bottom | 1400Kruve at the top

1.6g 8% passed through 500Kruve into the base

11.7g 58.8% caught by 500Kruve

6.7g 33.7% caught by 1400Kruve

Rounding errors I assume due to scales accuracy.

@MWJB Does the % through 500Kruve seem low for that grind? (I ask this acknowledging there isn’t really a right answer)

I wasn’t aggressive with the sifting, but I also wasn’t gentle by any stretch. Side to side, back and forth, taps side and top.

I will do anther sift next week and also do one with the F47.

MWJB

Your results look a little different to what I just got, the under 500 does seem a tad low:
Under 500 = 2.42g (12%)
Over 500 under 1400 = 12.13g (61% - the difference between 59% & 61% is not alarming)
Over 1400 = 5.29g (27%)

I’d expect 8-9% at 400Kruve, you should get noticeably more at 500.

Did you shake for 2 minutes?
Did you check that your scales go up & down in 0.1g increments?
If so, it could just be calibration difference between our grinders.

Most importantly, how is the coffee tasting at this setting?

PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB Thanks.

Shook for 2mins with taps on the side and top. I’ll try again and be more vigorous!

My scales are Timemore Black Mirror Nano - from a couple of tests they look to be 0.1g at that weight (I note on the bottom it says they go to 0.2g at a certain point). I can already feel the itch for 0.01g scales.

I used some old beans this time, just to try it out, so didn’t brew with it, but I will next time and feed back.

MWJB

PortafilterProcrastinator OK cool, but like I said, the sifting could be in line and a difference in grinder relative setting be the answer, so sure, do a sanity check but don’t get too hung up on grinder setting number & % matching exactly.

I tend to dial in a regime, then when happy with that, sift a sample.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Couple more sifts.

F47 @ 3+6 (three full turns, start at one, then stop at 6)

Under 500: 3.2g / 15.9%

Over 500 Under 1400: 13.9g / 69%

Over 1400: 3.2g / 15.9%

Again - rounding error. Didn’t drink as old beans and just wanted to put a stake in the ground. Closer to my v60 ‘goal’ than I thought I’d be.

Did another Niche sift at 93 (50+43) as well:

Under 500: 2.1g / 11.4%

Over 500 and Under 1400: 10.7g / 57.8%

Over 1400: 5.9g / 31.8%

This is after a week of making espresso and no cleaning / clearing (i.e. running a couple grams through first and discarding).

Made a v60 after mixing it all back up again:- 18.5g / 270g water 33g/30sec

Tasted a bit powdery with a few nicer subtle notes underneath - but I was also playing with my scales auto-timer function (Note: they do not like this method) so it went a bit awry and the beans are 6weeks on. Not a reliable result.

Will try again end of next week.

Am going to pick up some 0.01g scales as I can’t help myself. Seem to be a few options for not much money:

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/weighing-scales/2207317

Postage is twice as much as these:

https://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d03407/weighing-scale-pocket-0-01g-200g/dp/3573554

These look familiar!

https://uk.farnell.com/duratool/d03409/weighing-scale-compact-0-01g-500g/dp/3573556

Enjoying the journey so far. Just having an objective reference point is nice.

Next up, a spreadsheet.

MediumRoastSteam

PortafilterProcrastinator - alternatively….

This is pretty good. I have one. I also have another one which can measure up to 20g, at a 0.001g resolution, and when I measure small amounts on either, they both give the same results.

MWJB

The Niche figures look more in line with expectation, assuming comparable calibration.

For the 270g brew - 33g/30s regime, yeah, 16% under 500 looks on the fine side. I’d expect the grind for this method to be broadly similar to Niche at 93. With a steel burr conicaI, solidly mounted on the shaft, I would have expected an even split with 68% in the middle with 500 & 1400 and that’s just what you have.

The data sheet for your last link (D03409) says the scales have 0.1g resolution, not 0.01g.

I don’t think I’d bother with the Farnell offerings, but the 150g limit on the RS mean you’ll need a nice, light, wide vessel to catch the grinds when sweeping out of the Kruve.

PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB Thanks - I think calibration could easily change the dial number by 1 or 2. The silver ball doesn’t line up perfectly with the calibration mark (on mine at least) so choosing to go left or right will immediately create difference, before you consider other variables.

My plan is to get the niche and F47 as close as I can and then do side by side pours to see what the difference in the cup is.

The auto timer on the scales is such that you set it up with cup/ v60 etc, then set it, pour in your grinds, it will then auto-tare and start counting when you start pouring water. The start of the timer is very accurate, but it didn’t like the time between pours.

On the scales, I was hoping the 150g was just what it could weigh - so it could support more as long as tared.

MediumRoastSteam Thanks, although I think 20g max might be a bit tight.

MWJB

Ah, right, just realised the powdery V60 was with the Niche grind.

How does this auto-timer function work (in theory) in this scenario?

MediumRoastSteam

PortafilterProcrastinator that one is 500g.

MediumRoastSteam I have one. I also have another one which can measure up to 20g, at a 0.001g resolution

PortafilterProcrastinator

MediumRoastSteam Giphy - Season 3 Wall GIF by The Simpsons

MWJB

Deleted post

MWJB

All the Kruve sifting I have carried out to date, plus a few contributions from others.

PortafilterProcrastinator

So I’ve decided to get some more accurate scales. These seem to be well priced and I’m a bit more confident in them than amazon etc.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/weighing-scales/2207317

I’ve also found some very old de- caff beans I won’t be drinking so am going to do some more testing on the Knock47 as I’ve really not had the chance to use it all that much.

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