Just curious how many people regularly use a paper filter or a metal screen when making espresso and where. Hope the poll works. 🤞

I started using a metal puck screen when I got my VST basket a few months ago. I thought I'd try without it the other day and my grind setting was well off without the screen. I've got about 7 different coffees at the moment and decided rather than dialling them all in again, the screen stays. Especially since I'm now using a flow control kit. Sticking with what works

Neither paper nor screen. Been tempted but not yet tried either.

For those who are using a screen at the top of the puck, what have you found to be the best approach to removing the screen from the top of the puck/basket after the shot? Are you having to fish it out from your knock box? I am trying out the Normcore screen, and that what I have had to do thus far. Sometimes I have to knock the PF against the knock box bar so hard that my ridgeless basket falls out into the box, basket, puck and screen all together. Is there a better way? I must be having a brain freeze moment😒

Pf turned on it's side, give it a tap on the edge the screen should fall out, hot af 🤣 don't touch, then throw it in the bin😛 Seriously though give it a soak in some cleaner then watch the water turn brown 🤢 I believe you can dish washer them.

I leave the portafilter face down on top of the knockbox and it drops out itself after about 10 / 15 seconds sometimes with the puck sometimes without

Paper and Screen Use Poll

Emc2

The right way for a few seconds and then upside down. By the time the milk has been frothed, the puck is ready to be discarded. There’s often some grounds that are stuck but it’s made it so much easier to get the puck out cleanly. The screen doesn’t make any difference to flavour.

Doram

JHCCoffee Are you having to fish it out from your knock box?

It’s coffee dependant for me: with some coffees the screen will come off clean from the puck with a light knock, but with most coffees it will stick to the puck and have to be fished from the knockbox.

However - I just tried @dutchy101 and @Emc2 ’s trick (leave the pf upside down for a few seconds) and the screen came off clean without the puck from a coffee that usually sticks! More experimentation needed, but if this persists then it’s a winner! Thanks for the tip!

dutchy101

Doram

Very rare anyone finds anything I say useful - glad to be of service haha

gordy53

I just put a small spoon on one edge and push down slightly and the opposite side ’pop’s up’ so I lift it out by grabbing the raised edge, no problem!

JHCCoffee

Well, I tried the metal screen on top and paper on the bottom thing again, with:

Ahlstrom 6020-1250 Qualitative 2.5 micron filter paper, cut with a paper cutter/punch to approximately 58mm
Normcore metal screen

My dialed in recipe for this decaf full city + bean is 18.0 in, 24.5 out in 40 seconds, including a 20 second bloom pre-infusion. At a 10.5 grind on my NZ. Pressure of 9.5 BAR and temp at 97C. Producing decent body, strength, flavour, complexity and length, for this decaf bean.

With screen and paper, it took an NZ grind of 9.5 to eliminate the sourness caused by the initially too fast flow and associated under extraction. But the body and strength was thinner than before and not to my liking. I also lost a bit of flavour and complexity. I’ve had better shots and drinks.

I then reduced the brew ratio, in increments right down to a very ristretto shot of 18 in, 22 out. I had to reduce the grind (in increments) right down to 7.0, to counter the sourness caused by these short extraction shots. Body was ok, but strength of flavour was not and the shots tasted uninteresting, with no complexity or length.

I’ve poured about 12 inferior tasting shots this week, and am hankering for a decent espresso.

I’m done with this paper and screen faf. Back to the tried and true.

MWJB

JHCCoffee Can I ask what prompted you to try the paper & screen? I’ve never used a puck screen (what is it intended to do?), but I have frequently used an aeropress paper to clean up the flavour of shots at longer ratios. At 1.22 or 1.36 to 1, I’d expect your extractions to be on the lower side (no comment on whether this is good, or bad) & complexity to also be on the lower side. Perhaps the suspended solids you get from your unfiltered shots are helping to mute any sourness and are providing the body you prefer?

Have you tried the screen without the paper?

tompoland

MWJB never used a puck screen (what is it intended to do?

It really just keeps the shower screen cleaner. I don’t use the mesh type because they are harder to clean. The thinner stainless ones work well for me.

JHCCoffee

MWJB Can I ask what prompted you to try the paper & screen?

Thanks for asking. Several pundits (and a couple of forum members) have been crowing about it’s benefits, particularly reductions in channeling. Saying it is the next new and wonderful technique (following the WDT rage) that will lead us to espresso nirvana. As I have in fact fully bought into WDT (including 0.35mm needles), I thought I’d give screens and paper a try. So far, I don’t see the benefit, though I remain open to suggestion/learnin.

MWJB but I have frequently used an aeropress paper to clean up the flavour of shots at longer ratios.

What do you mean by “clean up the flavour” and why shots with longer ratios?

MWJB At 1.22 or 1.36 to 1, I’d expect your extractions to be on the lower side (no comment on whether this is good, or bad) & complexity to also be on the lower side.

My recent paperless/screenless shots have (with this bean) been a tad too full bodied and strong, with insufficient flavour/complexity/length, so I may increase the brew ratio a tad. And or bump up the BAR, once my OPV valve issue is fixed.

MWJB Perhaps the suspended solids you get from your unfiltered shots are helping to mute any sourness and are providing the body you prefer?

Could you please elaborate on this.

MWJB Have you tried the screen without the paper?

Not yet. I presume that this would reduce channelling without filtering out the oils and solids I like.

JHCCoffee

tompoland I don’t use the mesh type because they are harder to clean. The thinner stainless ones work well for me

This is what I have Normcore

What do you use?

Aside from keeping your screen clean, do you see any other benefits or downsides?

Channeling reduction?

Headroom reduction? (is that good or bad?)

In another thread you mentioned that: “I used filter paper in the bottom of the basket (to increase extraction)” How/why does it increase extraction? What is the impact on body, strength, taste, complexity and length?

MWJB

JHCCoffee What do you mean by “clean up the flavour” and why shots with longer ratios?

By clean up the flavour, I mean reduce non dissolved solids/silt in the cup, I don’t much care for charred, more bitter flavours and the way this sticks on the palate for a long time after the shot. I tend to brew longer shots to get the extractions in the 18%+ range, I can’t do this at 1.2 to 1.4, but I do sometimes brew at these shorter ratios to get very low, sweet extractions (before sourness sets in) that area a bit lower in complexity, if the higher extractions are hard to hit/not delivering.

Non dissolved solids in the cup can take the edge off the perception of sourness in under-extracted coffee. The coffee can taste OK until you filter it, then the under-extraction becomes more obvious.

tompoland

JHCCoffee

This one for 58mm basket (Decent) https://www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk/barista-tools/stainless-steel-puck-screen-or-contact-screen-585mm

This one for 49mm basket (Streitman) https://sworksdesign.com/Puck-Disc-Screen-p504672678 (I’m a big fan of sworks and bought the shades disk before I was aware that Sworks made one but happy with the shades all the same).

Still searching for one for a 54mm basket (Nurri) so using paper filters in the meantime.

I really don’t think there is any benefit in using disks or paper on top of the puck other than keeping the shower screen cleaner but it probably helps a bit with more even water distribution in espresso machines where the group head or shower screen does a poor job of water distribution. I haven’t seen any evidence in my day to day pours that it will in any way compensate for sloppy puck distribution (WDT).

The above two links are both for the super thin stainless type disks and very easy to keep clean. The mesh disks are harder to clean and become rancid if not thoroughly cleaned. Using a steam wand or ultrasonic cleaner were the two best ways I found to clean the mesh type disks before I switched to the SS type.

In regard to a paper filter on the bottom, the theory is that it allows for a finer grind, thus exposing more surface area to the water, increasing extraction and flavor. Definitely more yum.

See the 3.00min mark here…

Cuprajake

I’ve found paper to not really do to much, I’ve tried on the bottom, on the top, both

It just seems to mess with the pour

On the bottom I get really uneven pours with massive rings,

The idea is the paper catches the fines so the cup is cleaner less mouth feel

Now is this needed because these fancy grinders are making super fines that migrate to the cup, I don’t know

I found the thick mesh top screens annoying to work with, for very little benefit too, hard to clean, bloody hot to handle and added time to the shot. I believe they help take up head space

I wonder if all these fancy new baskets are all that. I mean the Weber uni filter and basket come with paper and a mech screen does that negate the basket, what happens if you just use the basket on its own, I’m sure they will be lorded by the many.

I just think we’re at the point of too much now and there’s wayyy to much stuff made to relive us from our cash.

tompoland

Cuprajake there’s wayyy to much stuff made to relive us from our cash.

100%. It’s fun trying stuff though.

The challenge of course is that it can be expensive trying stuff out unless there is someone like The Hoff to try it first. I tend to try stuff he endorses.

That said I prefer my espresso water pour temperatures a bit hotter than him and also I sold my EG-1 after 18 months and he kept his.

So at the end of the day we all have to figure it out for ourselves, but people like Hoffman and Rao and co. can make the journey to our personal conclusions a bit less expensive and a bit shorter.

JHCCoffee

MWJB Non dissolved solids in the cup can take the edge off the perception of sourness in under-extracted coffee. The coffee can taste OK until you filter it, then the under-extraction becomes more obvious

Very much appreciate this insight, MWJB. 🙏

I tried an 18 to 28 (1.55 to 1) shot this AM, which had less body and strength but very nice/delicate flavour notes coming out. These notes tasted a bit off in the straight shot, but we’re quite tasty in the milk drink. As an aside, I wonder why I can always better detect/taste flavour notes in a milk drink, compared to straight espresso?

FYI, I’ve previously generally had one to three shallow holes on the top of my puck, more often than not, despite careful WDT. I assume that this is a sign of insufficient distribution? Or??? So perhaps I have been historically plagued with uneven shots and associated underextraction?

tompoland But this AM I used the Normcore puck screen on top, with no paper on the bottom. The screen distribution looked great and the puck was perfect. The above mentioned 18.0 in, 28.0 out (1 to 1.55) shot tasted great, as did an 18.0 in, 24.3 out shot (1 to 1.35).

Btw, both ratios were accidental, due to scale malfunction. I was trying to pour an 18.0 to 25.7 shot (1 to 1.42 - my prior best tasting recipe for this bean), in order to keep that ratio as a constant, and thereby test the impacts of the Normcore puck screen. But my scale temporarily failed and I had to eyeball the shots. But then I’ve discovered many good things by accident.

DavecUK

tompoland also I sold my EG-1 after 18 months and he kept his.

I also remember he said in one video that he considered it to be the finest grinder out there….or some such. I 100% disagree with his assessment. In fact because of many comments he has made about other grinders grinders…I am very surprised he had that opinion of the EG1. For me the EG1 and the Key I consider generally not great grinders. I certainly wouldn’t recommend them. In fact anyone considering an EG1, go get a Kafatek Flat Max2 with shurikens….way better

They have good point of course,….but for me the negative points:

Weber key

workflow really sub optimal
can stall at lower speeds
huge amount of static (wiper not really effective, especially at burr faces.
RDT 100% essential
problematic grind adjustment ring (especially if you don’t engage it properly) and you can easily loose your zero point
Stepped Grind adjustment.
Don’t like magic grind cup

EG1

workflow really sub optimal
can stall!
huge amount of static
RDT 100% essential
Stepped grind adjustment & you can easily loose your zero point
Often hard to get those last beans ground, they do bounce about
Very large (more sculpture than grinder)
The most shocking one, couldn’t taste any difference between the EG1 and the Duo!

In fact, I am generally not a fan of the weber product range…imperfect solutions, looking for non problems. Especially the stupid spring clean thing which would actually clean worse!

JHCCoffee

@tompoland

Just curious. What are your thoughts on the 50 vs 200 micron screens Shades of Coffee ?

tompoland

JHCCoffee no idea sorry

(What’s a micron? 😀)

JHCCoffee

I use the Normcore metal puck screen. I heat it before use, using my steam wand. Is this necessary / beneficial or should I cut this step?

MediumRoastSteam

JHCCoffee use the Normcore metal puck screen. I heat it before use, using my steam wand. Is this necessary / beneficial or should I cut this step?

Try it over a week without heating up and see for yourself if it makes any difference in the cup for your taste?

chlorox

I use both metal puck screen and top filter paper with bottom filter paper but that combination was not mentioned in the vote options.

Cuprajake

i aint pre heating my screen haha