Parking Charge Notices

dfk41

Does anyone know the correct answer to this question? If a private firm issue a PCN, is there a legal point at which it runs out of statute ie the two year point? I received one in March 2021 and initially received loads of bullying letters which soon moved on to threats of bailiffs and debt recovery. I have not had anything for 6 months or so, then received an alleged solicitors letter from a firm with exactly the same name as the company chasing me, which made me wonder at what point do they give up (because they have to)

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 is there a legal point at which it runs out of statute

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58/section/5

(6 years, basically)

Cuprajake

Be careful I believe they can get you now.

Mrs got one at work, she pays for NHS arking but at the hospital they are building so using a carpark for the contractors.

Patient parking full, so they have been parking on a side but, 5 of them got tickets.

Their not allowed to use patient parking.

She paid it in the end

dfk41

Cuprajake It all depends on who issues the ticket. Only the Police, Traffic Wardens and Council employees can issue a Fixed Penalty Notice. Tickets issued on private land have no legal standing. Instead all you can be ‘done’ for is breach of contract which is why private parking areas are supposed to have terms and conditions clearly displayed. The tickets they issue are Parking Control Notices and have no legal standing as such as they cannot issues fines. Yet they mimic the process by using yellow and black edged letters and talk of increasing the fine if you do not pay within X days…..all total woffle.
They become increasingly desperate and ramp up the rhetoric with threats and the like. If they go as far as issuing court proceedings then all they can try and do you for is effectively trespass for the value of the original amount. My understanding is they rarely issue proceedings because it is costly and far from certain. I never respond to them at all and they usually give up, as this bunch will do. But, I wondered if statute struck the claim at say the 2 year point and they know the case is lost. The quality of paper used in the last letter was one up from sweet wrappings, that no respectable firm would consider. The law ought to ban them, as they did with clampers!

Beverast

Cuprajake As a matter of interest how much is NHS parking per day? My Mrs and I both work in a hospital and the hospital has dedicated staff parking for free - a huge area of tarmac and a multi story car park staff can use above a certain floor. I think it’s so unfair to charge NHS staff to park. It’s recommended to walk/cycle etc to work but I live 20 miles from work, so driving in is my only option (public transport is seriously unreliable at the moment). I can imagine if both of us had to pay for parking that would be a big bill per month, on top of the obvious fuel costs.

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 all they can try and do you for is effectively trespass for the value of the original amount

Nope. See Parking Eye v. Beavis, where a parking charge of £85 was deemed reasonable - however Beavis didn’t pay for parking at all; a different judgement was reached in another case (Parking Eye v. Cargius) where the defendant had overstayed, and would only have had to pay £2 to cover the difference.

The Beavis judgement - in case you want to read through its 124 pages: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment.pdf

This doesn’t mean they will take you to court (even recovering the maximum £100 in the BPA guidelines, they’d lose money), but they have 6 years to do so, not 2.

dfk41

CoyoteOldMan Many thanks matey. It was the statute of limitations I wanted. Each and every case is different but all these parking control firms work on private land where normal laws do not apply. Without reading the judgement it is difficult to comment but what cannot be altered is they can only do you for breach of contract for terms and conditions imposed on you by parking on that private land.

dfk41

CoyoteOldMan I actually read the relevant section and Beavis lost because he appealed on 2 very specific points of law. Others may have more success with a different approach, but at the end of the day, they are still limited as to the amount they may claim for and unless someone had multiple cases against them that could be heard as one, then the cost of recovery outweighs the actions!

LMSC

dfk41 I am not sure it was actually worth dragging the penalty notice. Drawing this to a close, buying the peace of mind and the hassles of uncertainties are worth a fortune than not paying. Hey, that’s my view. 😊

DavecUK

dfk41 they are still limited as to the amount they may claim for and unless someone had multiple cases against them that could be heard as one, then the cost of recovery outweighs the actions!

Does that limitation exclude them from claiming their costs of court action solicitors etc as well?

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 Yep. The issue is that however the Beavis case has now set a precedent for:

PCNs are not necessarily a penalty or an unfair term in a parking contract (which, although specific, are frankly the two main points one could appeal against). Particularly if they are configured as a way to keep people ‘moving’ rather than parking for long periods.
To the tune of £50 to £100, it is a reasonable amount.

Therefore, a (much) lower court can now rule based on this judgement without fear (for the parking company) that they would get embroiled in expensive, multi-level litigation. Basically, they can now start a claim, pay a minimal fee (£35, that they can recover if the outcome is positive for them), and wait for you to cough up the money, if the situation is fairly similar to the Beavis case (overstay the maximum time limit).

Gagaryn

If you don’t think you should have received the ticket or you think the amount being charged is unreasonable you should challenge it explaining why you aren’t paying it. Conversely, if you know you shouldn’t have parked on the landowners land and are just assuming the landowners effort of enforcement will outweigh their benefit, IMO you should just pay the ticket.

Landowners have a right to charge for and control parking. I have little sympathy for those that don’t respect that. I also have little sympathy for sharks who overcharge for parking on their land - but not all tickets are unfair.

dfk41

DavecUK As far as I know, expenses can only be awarded by a court, but hey ho…..are you really saying that if you get a parking ticket or parking control notice, your first thoughts are not there is no way that I am paying that. Why do they not just issue you with a trespass notice as opposed to trying to kid you on that they have legal powers

DavecUK

dfk41 Sadly, for you, many politicians had an interest in parking companies, some were NE Directors. etc.. So the lobbying by said companies, resulted in a law change. This meant that previously unenforceable penalty charges, are now enforceable (assuming the legal requirements have been followed, signage etc..).

dfk41

CoyoteOldMan Yep, overstaying the limit is hard to argue against. Luckily for me, my ‘offence’ was totally different, hence my harder line attitude to them! Will let you know if it goes as far as the Supreme Court!

tompoland

dfk41 Luckily for me, my ‘offence’ was totally different,

May I ask where the alleged offence was?

And if the fine is in any way unreasonable then, as we say here in Australia, “Tell ’em they’re dreamin”.

CoyoteOldMan

dfk41 Good luck - and let’s hope it doesn’t make it to the Magistrate, never mind the Supreme Court

(Totally en passant - Happy New Year to everyone!)

dfk41

tompoland Certainly. I attach a photo. You turn in from a very busy road junction. They have since removed the signage and machines by the looks of it. It was at night time and there was a car right behind me. Such as the layout was, his rear end was still on the road. I drove through and straight in front were the disabled bays. Other than the usual blue badge signpost there was nothing to suggest and need to pay or restrictions. I waited in the blue badge bays for approximately 20 minutes (my wife is the badge holder). I watched several cars come in and no one stopped for any reason. From where I was parked the only signs were to do with electric charging points. It was dark, lighting was poor and as I say, to a stranger absolutely nothing obvious!

LMSC

Unfortunately, parking isn’t free across the trusts, I think. I remember she paying for a full term in her F2 in one of the hospitals in the outskirts of London. I don’t remember how much she paid.

She could not afford the charge, although she had to drive. The worst part was regular parking charge notices for over parking during most of the night shifts as the shifts often end later than the scheduled hours. She will have to email the council every time requesting a waiver. The council was nice and will set the charges aside every time.

Edit:

That hospital had no recourse for a monthly pass.

Cuprajake

Hi,

She only pays about £7 per month so not alot really.

The fuel side of things though, in her last post she was putting £80-90 per week in fuel, 5days 4hrs ler day.

Her new post £40 per week 3days 5hrs a day