Hi All At the suggestion of @"tompoland"#121 , here are some of the some of the things that have worked (and haven't) as I have worked to dial in decaf espresso beans. I'd love to hear what works for you (and doesn't). Many are obvious, for both decaf and caf beans: I have a "go to" decaf bean, roasted by Goldstar here in Toronto, that is 2/3 Hawaiian Kona and 1/3 "espresso blend". It is a Full City+ roast, bordering on Vienna. I'd call is a medium-dark. Their product is consistently good. - This bean did not do well with my Eureka Mignon grinder and its flat burr set. I could not dial it in to the taste that I had with my prior heavily modded Bartaza Sette 270 (which included a dimmer mod that allowed some extent of pressure profiling, along with other mods). When I sold my Mignon and bought my Niche Zero, I was (after much trial and error) able to dial this bean in to produce a very tasty espresso, that I take as a cappuccino. I suspect that the NZ's conical burr set is much more suited to this Full City + roast, decaf bean. - My best shots with this bean were and continue to consistently be 18.0 in (in an 18g IMS basket) and 31.5 out, at 96C, 9 BAR pressure, 16 second bloom pre-infusion and 11.0 grind on my NZ, pouring in 35 to 40 seconds. I have tried longer and shorter brew ratios, coarser and finer grinds, and higher and lower temps. This recipe seems to work best. - I have another bean that I like, which is roasted by Milano Coffee from Vancouver. They call it their Harmony blend and are not specific about its origins. But it is a Vienna roast. Again, I just could not dial in this roast with my Eureka Mignon, but was able to with my NZ. My best shot was/is 18.0 in, 24.6 out at a 10.5 grind with 20 seconds of bloom pre-infusion; 97C. Again, I was able to dial it in with my earlier Sette 270, then not at all with my Eureka Mignon and again now (and even better) with my NZ. My takeaway is that medium/dark decafs (say Full City to Full City+) seem to work well with at a brew ratio in and around 1:1.75. Somewhat darker roasts (say Vienna) potentially do better with shorter ratios, say at 1:1.35. Long bloom pre-infusions (16 to 20 seconds) seem to help; steam pre-infusions do not. Surprisingly, higher temps seem to be needed for sufficient extraction. I am betting that higher pressures might help, but I have an OPV valve issue on my Lelit E that my retailer will fix, when I bring it in next week. The other key items pertain to both decaf and caf: 1) a quality basket (for me, the 18g IMS basket), 2) the right burr set for the right bean, which for my preferred medium dark to dark beans seems to be the NZ conical burr set (and its design), 3) careful deep/mid/surface WDT, with four 0.35mm needles (I encountered problems with smaller needles or more needles), 4) a well fitted tamper, which for my IMS basket is the EazyTamp with a 58.5mm base, 5) for the Lelit E, the stock screen seems to work better than a IMS screen. FYI, I personally encountered distribution challenges using the NZ cup. I now grind straight into the IMS basket with a dosing collar, all sitting on a block of wood. I rotate the basket to improve distribution evenness. My challenge is dialing in a medium light roast (City to Full City). I've never been enamored with the flavours of these roasts in decaf beans, but I have and continue to be hopeful to extract good flavours and tastes. The best tastes I've had were at 18.0 in, 30.5 out, a much finer grind (8.0), 20 second steam pre-infusion, 97C. I do not like a longer ratio, as I do not like the thinner body/strength that I get from longer ratios. I want it all: sufficient body/strength, good flavours and long length. I just can't seem to obtain this with a City or Full City roast decaf bean, never mind something lighter. _Any suggestions from other decaf espresso drinkers, on how to dial in the City or Full City beans?_ Overall, it is most challenging to find good tasting decaf beans. Most roasters carry one or at most 2 decaf varieties. Many just do not know how to roast decaf. Some over roast. I had high hopes for a locally roasted CO2 decaf process bean; it was an "espresso roast" that was burnt to a crisp. _What's been your experience with decaf? Can roasters actually produce decent decaf, or am I stuck in decaf hell for my remaining years? How do you coax decent taste out of your decaf, especially from medium roast beans?_

Dialing in Decaf - Successes and Challenges

drdre89

I only brew decaf these days as I find caffeine causes inflammation with me. I’m in Australia and have found 2 decafs I enjoy so far

https://www.foxcoffee.com.au/products/decaf-espresso?variant=28315336376397

https://www.rumblecoffee.com.au/products/colombia-popayan-decaf-coffee

Both Colombian decafs very chocolatey . I have found you need to let it rest at least 14-18 days after roast date to develop flavours. And you need to grind finer than normal.

Using NZ conical normally set to around 11 on the dial and my Rancilio Silvia pro x with full 6 seconds soft infusion. 17g in , 27g out. 93deg.

After time as the beans get older they get more sour/bright… so the older the bean is, the more finer I have to grind. I store my beans in little mason jars.

So far no one can tell the difference that I’m serving them decaf in their latte.

LMSC

Like drdre89, we let them sit longer for 3-4 weeks before opening. Most of them are medium dark/dark. I remember one of the bags as a light roast. It was seriously under developed; the beans were very difficult to grind, and the coffee was awful in taste.

We dose 16g on the IMS double basket
Grind finer than normal
Pull the cup out at 8 bars giving about 25g.
The group and brew temps are the same as the standard bag.
We don’t find much variety in decaf.

tompoland

Super helpful thread and posts!

dfk41

I think the beans play a far larger role in having a successful decaf than many realise. 6 years or so ago, I went on a strict decaf bean regime. I bought from far and wide and quickly realised that an awful lot of roasters really had no idea how to get the best out of decaf beans. This can or was also true of ‘lighter’ roasters who decide to go darker. All they do is add an extra minute or so on to the end of the time and hope for the best.
Then you come across some decaf beans that really suits your taste buds. As with all things, a lot of it comes down to personal beliefs and preferences. As some have mentioned, decaf beans are often slightly darker than standard. These beans need a longer resting time and for me, it is often a month before I start them. So, next time some one finds a really stonking decaf, make sure you tell everyone!

JHCCoffee

Ok …. so longer (3 to 4 week) resting times.

Now I have some decaf beans in my freezer that were, after 10 days rest: a) separated into 115g portions and vacuum packed, b) frozen. I then defrost a 100g portion, open it at room temperature and decant into small sealable glass jars that hold about 18g each.

Do decaf beans that have been repacked continue to gain flavor while resting in the freezer, or does revacuum packing and freezing suspend everything? What happens when I take it out of the freezer and allow to defrost? Does the resting process restart?

JHCCoffee

I continue to explore the decaf bean resting time topic. A Google search revealed the following from a very knowledgeable individual named Jim.

Decaf beans vary a great deal. Fresh roasted decafs sometimes require more coarse grind settings than their caffeinated cousins. The reason a lot of decaf requires finer grind settings is that decaf goes stale very, very fast. Once it begins to stale, you need to grind finer and dose more heavily just as you would with any other coffee going stale.

I plan to test this out. I have had some great shots (described earlier in this thread) on my prior Lelit E that I had previously been unable to quite duplicate on my Decent (but will, I am slowly getting to know how to use this machine to its full potential).

Any updated thoughts on:

Resting decaf beans?
Dialing in decaf beans?

And if you please, can we stay clear of any discussions about the site from which this information is sourced.

dfk41

I have drunk decaf for years and never have an issue dialling it in! As with any coffee, the first shot is a point of reference, the second a very good guide and usually by the third it is nailed. Are you saying that your shots drift matey? By that I mean you pull a shot and it is spot on, pull another and it seems as if the shot needs further tightening or coarsening.

HarveyMushman

I tried decaf (Columbian from Caravan) for the first time in my 40 years of drinking coffee recently as I liked the idea of having a big mug of coffee before bed but obviously not with caffeine.

Decided against it after trying it…

Are we sure it’s not that it’s difficult to dial in, it’s just actually a fairly unpleasant drink regardless? I’m not trying to be funny, it just seemed awful to me.

MediumRoastSteam

HarveyMushman - I don’t think it’s unpleasant. You just have to find something that works best for your taste. It took me ages, but I found that Foundry’s decaf suits me. Yes, it’s miles from what I would normally classify as great coffee (I like light roasted, “boozy” coffee) but for the odd cup of coffee past 4pm it seems to work rather well. Still, even though I found a good decaf, in the grand scheme of things, for me, it’s still a bit “meh”.

dfk41

HarveyMushman I agree, that an awful lot of roasters make a pigs ear of decaf. I only drink decaf as a blend and it needs to be at least medium and a bit. I think Caravan are a lighter roaster. I know it is down to personal preference but for me, I only drink blends and they need to be roasted to at least medium and a bit more. I also find against Hoffman on resting and usage. I always give a minimum of 2 weeks rest and drink a kilo over 3 or 4 weeks. In defence of the Hoff, I am certainly not a super taster so probably drink coffee that he would chuck away!

HarveyMushman

@MediumRoastSteam @dfk41 I’ll take your word for it. Once was enough for me 😅

dfk41

HarveyMushman Ha! You are doing what many do, which is dismiss the whole decaf bean scenario. Have you never bought normal beans and been disapointed with them and if so, why are you still trying beans from other roasters?

HarveyMushman

@dfk41 Fair points. It just tasted very different to any caffeinated coffee I’ve had in an unpleasant way which I’d assumed was a characteristic of decaf. Perhaps I’ll give it another go if it’s worth sticking with.

denopa

Topical :

Would love to hear UK based people’s suggestions for a good go-to decaf. I’m using Union’s Decaf Maraba at the moment and it’s quite nice.

MattH

So just from the 2 recipes above - using 93 and 96c for temps on a med/dark roast my question is - does temp make all that much difference ?

From the internet rough guide seem to suggest

80-85 dark

86-92 med

93 plus light for example

dfk41

MattH Ah, the good old internet! As a rule of thumb, for medium and anything north I do not often drop below 93. I do not drink light stuff but believe on the Evo nearer to 95 is quite usual

LMSC

MattH The temp settings do not change — be it normal or decaf — on the Evo for me.

90C group and 96C brew >= Medium Dark
92C group and 98C brew = Medium
93C/94C group and 99C/100 <= medium light

I mostly drink the light stuff and am not a fan of anything above medium. I drink as a black. :-)