Lance Hedrick - review of the VOSTOCK

MediumRoastSteam

Cuprajake - Thanks Jake. So, in summary, a V Evo on steroids! 🙂

trey_antipasto

The Vostok 1G looks like an amazing machine. It goes a bit to far me and imo more complexity is even more stuff to potentially have issues arise with. At least, I am telling myself that so I try to not email ACS and ask to be put on the list for one (ha!) It would be nice though if the Leva had the new pump and the external pre-infusion setting.

Has anyone looked at adding the barista lights to the Leva since the controller seems already set up for it?

CoyoteOldMan

trey_antipasto My understanding re: new features is that all will be ported to the Evo. At this point (and at the prices mentioned by Lance), I think it becomes only a question of what you prefer aesthetically. On complexity… just don’t use it. Leave it on ‘manual’, and it’s the same as the current Evo, plus the ability to control pre-inf pressure from the panel rather than by removing a panel.

The one thing I think is not going to work on the Evo is the light. The hardware - except for the light itself - is all there, but there is nowhere sensible to attach the LEDs to. Anglepoise anyone?

DavecUK

trey_antipasto Has anyone looked at adding the barista lights to the Leva since the controller seems already set up for it?

The lights underneath were my idea, and Paolo laughed, but I’m assuming he added them. The Evo doesn’t have the little transformer the Vostok has…but it could be added I guess. The problem is a mod to the front panel would be required to add a barista light….which might irritate Paolo (but I will ask).

You may well have noticed the bulb symbol on the Evo control panel….that’s for controlling the non existent light.

Grahamsphillips

tompoland

Grahamsphillips thanks for the heads up.

I think @lancehedrick reviews keep getting better and better.

Towards the end he made some very interesting distinctions between the espresso from the consistent 9 bar pressure that comes from a traditional E61 or a sprung lever machine versus the declining profile possible on something like a Decent or even a direct lever machine like a Flair or Strietman. A point the Decent creator John Buckman also made a year or so ago in the Lever magazine and who Lance’s acknowledges in that context.

I liked the way Lance made his case for the pros and cons. All in all, a pretty well balanced review.

@Amberale Is probably the 1st Australian to order one so we’ll look forward to his impressions.

It’s going to land here Down Under for more than AU$1000 less than the Nurri and the specs look to be as good if not better than the Nurri. The features on the latter are pretty darned good e.g. heater cartidge in group head for temperature
stability versus two cartridges in the Vostock. Are 2 better than one or is the second cartridge unnecessary or is it one big cartridge versus 2 smaller cartridges? I have no idea.

Plus it’s from an experienced manufacturer with world class pedigree, so it’s a highly competitive machine.

The other comparison will be to the Evo I guess. Will ACS be cannibalising the Evo sales like LM appear to be doing (mini v micra) or are they very different machines appealing to very different market segments?

MediumRoastSteam

lancehedrick

DavecUK I love the lights. glad he listened!

CoyoteOldMan

tompoland heater cartidge in group head for temperature
stability versus two cartridges in the Vostock.

I had always thought that the system and layout of the group heaters were pretty much identical between Nurri and ACS, particularly since TOF is now making both groups… Two cartridges are necessary (or ‘better’ if you prefer) as they each sit on one side of the group; if you had only one, it would be difficult and time-consuming to heat the group consistently throughout and “keep it there”, as there is a large volume of air (the sleeve/cylinder/brew chamber) in the middle which does not conduct heat all that well.

tompoland Will ACS be cannibalising the Evo sales

I would think yes, to some extent. If the Vostok 1 group had been available 6 months ago, I would have ordered it instead of the Evo, as I prefer the looks (added features are nice, but not a deal breaker, and they are expected to be ported over). The size of the Vostok may prove problematic for some - the Evo is a bit smaller, although by no means small!

However, I think cannibalisation is a non-issue, in the sense that sales that would have gone to an Evo will go to a Vostok instead - both benefit from using components - and presumably tooling - from other machines (Multi-group Vostok, Vesuvius, Minima), so it’s not like there would be a critical volume below which one or the other becomes infeasible or unprofitable, or at least not quickly.

tompoland

CoyoteOldMan system and layout of the group heaters were pretty much identical between Nurri and ACS, particularly since TOF is now making both groups

Hadn’t thought of that. You’re probably on the money.

chlorox

CoyoteOldMan

Would the evo be substantially cheaper than 3300 euros now that the vostok is coming out? Otherwise its difficult to stop cannabilising of evo sales by the vostok and there is a need for product differentiatiion

sketchy

I was intrigued by the review, and enamored by what ACS does. I’d consider it if I were in the market. I have the Vesuvius, and it’s been going strong for over 4 ½ years, but I do shake my head at ACS in terms of a lack of visibility, availability and product updates. One of the resellers here in the U.S. (Chris’ Coffee) stopped carrying it entirely. Maybe someone can clue me in on why they are the way they are.

Lance did a very nice job with that review.

Cuprajake

Acs are a small company,

I bet it’s hard to keep up with demand, when you compare to say the profitec lever which is a gigantic operation

Plus it would increase the price as the dealer mark up would be insane.

The comments on the vid are really annoying, londinuim lot out in force, but half of them don’t seem to have taken in what he’s said ..

Also shows you how against change they are,

When you look at the leva X and the kees levers they all have temp stability built in just like the ACS, you cannot say this of most current levers as they don’t that it. There all 60yr old design…

tompoland

Cuprajake There all 60yr old design

100%

chlorox

Cuprajake

The trad levers do fluctuate with every use or flush in terms of temperature so they are more inexact. That’s fine but charging what they charge for 70 year old technology is bad for us consumers. It’s important for acs and nurri and more cpmpanies following theiir example to really make a success of the new line levers in order to make the general coffee market aware of the revolution that is going on and of the new abilities of these machines and that u don’t have to spend Leva X money to achieve it. That way the expectation and demand of consumers will hopefully require the manufacturers to add these capabilities and they become the new industry standard for premium levers. Its about time levers won back some of the market share the pumps won beginning in 1961…

LMSC

Nice positive review by Lance; his quick comparison / observations of flat 9 bars vs Decent vs ACS was interesting.

Having used to extensive and thorough reviews by Dave, and used the Evo for more than 1.5 years, his review didn’t excite me, tbh. To be fair, he didn’t have much time with the machine either.

His reviews are markedly different now and more technical. His review should hopefully turn lever buyers’ attention to ACS.

Going by the innovations in the lever market, these will become the industry standard; those who adopt and innovate are more likely to sustain than those who fail to…!

lancehedrick

LMSC thanks for watching! Yes- as said in the video, it was less a review and more of a “first look.” I had just a few days with it because they needed it back for an expo in Naples. HOpefully i’ll get my hands on it longer next time.

Cuprajake

I know it’s an old man’s game 😛 and I still think the 90’s was 10yrs ago. 😂😂😂

But I’m glad of the advances

There’s a place for all machine, I don’t get all the in fighting, it’s nice to see people setup outside the box and take a risk.

Going from the norm must be scary,

There are people on the yt comments comparing it to a Cremina because they cost the same…🤯

dfk41

I think, when the production machine is ready, if Paolo is careful as to who he asks to review then providing all gremlins are ironed out, it is going to be hard to knock the current crop of levers with ‘electronic wizardry’. Traditional machines are always going to have their place but…….when Londinium came to fruition in 2012/13 they really had very little opposition. Now they do have real opposition, in terms of features, build quality and price (LR24 is £3700 or 4171 Euros, Vostok 3300 Euros in UK, £2931) then it is hard to understand who in their right mind would buy an out of date, old fashioned machine, and more importantly, remove the fan boy influencers and what have you really got?

MediumRoastSteam

dfk41 - in the lever world, both the ACS V Evo and the Nurri are highly innovative and certainly have disrupted the market, forcing the competition to up their game, become obsolete or find their niche in the market for what they are (plenty of those around, not only with levers - Profitec is a great example). The good news for us is that we, the customers, have more choices and can take our pick for what is best for us. 👍

Interesting times! For me, all I want is a nice lever machine (or a pressure profiling machine), made in Europe, half the size of those currently on offer! 🤣🤣🤣. We’ll get there.

Doram

MediumRoastSteam For me, all I want is a nice lever machine (or a pressure profiling machine), made in Europe, half the size of those currently on offer! 🤣🤣🤣. We’ll get there.

When you say pressure profiling, you mean actual pressure (not flow) profiling, right?

Because if you settle for flow, you don’t need to wait for the future (Bianca, Minima/Mara X with Coffee Sensor…).

chlorox

MediumRoastSteam

I really hope the new wave lever machines will force the traditional lever makers to up their game and their products or lower the price. Why must a profitec 800 or an izzo alex cost as much as they do with their simple make up ? Why not come out with more upgraded levers and then offer the traditional levers at a lower price point? Thta would be better for the consumers and widen the market further.

MediumRoastSteam

Doram - yeah. Pressure profile, like the Vesuvius, the Crem One, the VBM I don’t know what, the Decent, or a spring lever machine (so not profiling, but decline pressure). But the current ones on offer are rather massive.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam Doram - yeah. Pressure profile, like the Vesuvius, the Crem One, the VBM I don’t know what, the Decent, or a spring lever machine (so not profiling, but decline pressure). But the current ones on offer are rather massive.

I was going to discuss with Paolo whether a smaller machine using the LSM group could be manufactured….

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