May be launching on Kickstarter Mid March and at USD $1.5k. A hybrid with a little bit of Decent and a little bit of Strietman. https://youtu.be/N-dxaLZTfGc At that price I'd probably back it. With four temperature sensors, built in scale, stop by weight, and more, it looks very well thought out. Seems to be a fully functioning working prototype which is encouraging. I would like to see a dedicated tablet with stand (like the Decent) on top to avoid having to hold it by hand. But that is easy enough with a tablet stand. Tom like.

That looks good! I was talking to a friend yesterday about something similar - I haven't seen this before, mind - Where for a compact version of the Nurri or the V Evo, you could have one boiler holding water under pressure for steam purposes. Then a heat exchanger would fill the group, but would also mix cold water with it. As the group is heated and with a sensor in it, the user could see the temperature of the water inside the piston in real time. Once it reaches the set temperature and it's stable, the user can simply release the lever and pull the shot -this would then make the brew boiler redundant. I'm no engineer, so I don't even know if that's even a possibility. But it would be a really neat machine. I'd be all over it.

@"tompoland"#p36554 Forgive me mate but where is the Strietman bit??

@"Amberale"#p36560 The group (that you fill in manually with a kettle) resembles the Strietman, in my opinion.

@"MediumRoastSteam"#p36561 Have you got an approximate time in the video? I couldn't be stuffed watching them carry on for 30 minutes with a phone/tablet.

> @"tompoland"#p36554 I would like to see a dedicated tablet with stand (like the Decent) on top to avoid having to hold it by hand. But that is easy enough with a tablet stand. As an accountant, I applaud their effort to make their software compatible with all the mainstream tablets and thereby avoid the not insignificant cost of providing a dedicated tablet and so keeping the overall price lower. I like it a lot; but not having a boiler, it is not able to do steam, which could be a downer for those liking milky drinks?

> @"jrling"#p36578 which could be a downer for those liking milky drinks? Good point. Definitely a downer for milk coffee drinkers. Like the Strietman or Flair. Espresso only. Some buy separate milk heater/frothers but it's not ideal. PS different makes/models of tablets can be used with the Decent too.

@"tompoland"#p36580 Can you imagine a world where you would sell your CT2 to own this?

@"Amberale"#p36583 not with the Decent and a Nurri sitting on my bench either side of the Streitman. Not trying to be a smart xxrse, it's just that the Meticulous wouldn't really bring anything extra to the bench. It really does look terrific and if I didn't have the Decent it would be seriously tempting. All of which is to say that I've thought about it more since my original post and I won't be backing it. Having had a lot of machines and grinders come and go, I'm going to settle down for a while, I hope. (Other than a couple on pre-order being the Argos and x-Bloom 😀 )

Meticulous

Cuprajake

ive never even heard of her, it just popped up on my feed,

the shots visually didn’t look amazing, but that’s nothing to go off

dfk41

I am probably in the minority as usual, but I thought it was a terrible video. As already mentioned, why pull the shot at 89? In the last video the temp also decreased. It may have just been for demonstration purposes but towards the end of the shots you could see through the espresso, which I suppose we would call blonding. The temperature thing worries me though. Does the Youtuber know what she is doing? Is she careless and just did not realise and edit it out? AM I a fool and these days everyone pulls shots at 89?

I am short tempered but the prospect of being able to manipulate 4 aspects of the shot just leaves me cold. I know on the Evo I can manipulate group and brew boiler temp, but unless I am tweeking a shot I do not…and did I mention the fact you have to put in water every shot? Am sure it will appeal to many, and if it does, then I hope it brings you many hours of fun!

giampiero

dfk41 I did watch the video, the first shot at 86C the others at 89C, me too i found it weird….does the 5th wave coffee movement already start?🤭

I then found out that the author of the video she replied in the video comments section that “she did not changed the temp setting, and this setting was made due to at altitude the water boil early”.

So i guess it means that the prototypes are tested in Mexico City, where the water boil at around 92/93 C?

I simply forwarded “her comment”, i don’t want to judge it.

MackOT

I’ve been watching this machine for awhile. I have friends that back it. One of them is pretty well known in Coffee industry. I decided early on that not gonna back it since the inventor has no track record in manufacturing stuff in China (he plans to built it there and ship to US).

If he can deliver it as he said and it can do thing like my ACS Evo Leva. Sure I will buy it. I look at it like automobile. One auto transmission one manual transmission. 😂

MediumRoastSteam

giampiero - or maybe La Paz, Bogotá or Quito. 🫤🤦‍♂️

I do wonder whether for higher temperatures the machine as is right now, might struggle to keep up with heat loss. Maybe, maybe not, maybe it’s altitude, maybe the presenter didn’t think too much about it. I would be interested in seeing it working with higher temps, just out of curiosity.

DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam I do wonder whether for higher temperatures the machine as is right now, might struggle to keep up with heat loss. Maybe, maybe not, maybe it’s altitude, maybe the presenter didn’t think too much about it. I would be interested in seeing it working with higher temps, just out of curiosity.

I think that’s a good point, heat loss is a 4th power equation, so it doesn’t increase in a linear fashion, e.g. twice as hot is 4 times the heat loss (Stefan-Boltzmann). I always used to be puzzled when someone would say, when not perhaps able to startt on their tea for a little while. I won’t put milk in my tea yet, as it will get cold faster…I’ll add the milk later. Which of course is the wrong way round.

giampiero I then found out that the author of the video she replied in the video comments section that “she did not changed the temp setting, and this setting was made due to at altitude the water boil early”.

This statement itself is puzzling the water boiling early would only refer to the maximum temperature achieved, so if the machine was set to 92 you would get a 92C shot, no reason to set it at 86 to 89 or less….in Mexico they could have set it to 90 or 91. The coffee doesn’t know it’s at altitude and extract badly at “ almost boiling”?

DenisS

So judgy already. Decent people pull light roasts at 88-90C start temp with end temp at low as 85C. Temp measured at the shower screen, not in a boiler like a normal machine.

MediumRoastSteam

DenisS Temp measured at the shower screen, not in a boiler like a normal machine.

In a “normal” machine, the temperature inside the boiler is significantly higher, by around approx. 10 degrees Celsius, sometimes more. That’s why machines have an offset parameter. So, as an example, temperature at the group might be 93C (calculated), but inside the boiler it is 103C (actual).

MediumRoastSteam

I was also reading the comments on that video, and the meticulous steamer (whether it’s a machine with steam or separate I don’t know) but the presenter was going to review one shortly. Would be interesting to see it!

InfamousTuba

From what has been released on the meticulous milk, it seems to be similar in idea to the WPM steamer that @tompoland has been trying out, maybe with a bit less power or maybe not as many features but in a smaller, nicer package (obviously mostly speculation until more information is released).

Also interesting to see Emilee review it because she is very talented at latte art and teaching it.

tompoland

InfamousTuba agree, similar goal. Smaller footprint. Also, the WPM is 100% hands free in that you can literally push a button and walk away.

BTW I took the WPM to a latte art class (I was the sole participant) and the trainer used it and was very impressed with the milk quality. Her exact words were: “Wow, that is amazing!”.

Like the Decent and now the Meticulous, the WPM has its fair share of sceptics. It’s not for everyone (big footprint and not exactly visually alluring) but for me it’s a winner.

(Footnote: The latte art trainer is now trying to convince her boss to trial the WPM in his cafe.)

MattH

tompoland And how was your art at the end of the lesson ?

tompoland

MattH I don’t think that the word I’d choose is allowed 🤪

tompoland

Unbelievable?

DavecUK

The more money Meticulous continue to raise, the more worried I actually get. The reasons are

zero track record, except the well overdue non delivery of the chess board product…for which backers are still waiting and unsure what they will actually get
Apparently a very large team who will all need paying
A buggy machine currently demonstrated
Pushed and advertised super hard (marketing on steroids)
Not a huge amount of detail
People (backers) making it up as they go along regarding capabilities
From zero to producing over 3,000 quality machines by Dec 23 (not going to happen). Why do they still claim it will. Mass production is really hard, especially if you have not done it before. If they work out the bugs, fully and properly test (all in 9 weeks) and start producing they will have 6 months at the very best. 600 machines per month!!!
How will they manage to properly QA that many machines
How will they do all of the above whilst introducing new products. They now have 7 stretch goals (a few weeks ago it was 4).
Also the Meticulous Milk, another new product weaved into the campaign

To me this looks designed to get as much backing as possible, for something that has totally unproven reliability….and a VERY risky proposition. I know some people are starting to get worried and dropping out.

dutchy101

Randomly (lol) this ‘article’ just came up in my news feed on my phone: https://hiconsumption.com/meticulous-espresso-machine/

DavecUK

dutchy101 Being pushed so hard it would win any Winter Olympic Bobsleigh event. All positive and the implication you are buying one. My guess, that’s a paid for advertorial, as I can see the amount of effort the “author” made doing cut and paste.….. Call me a cynic but I’m even going to guess the author has never seen, or touched the machine. 🤣

tompoland

I cancelled my pledge. Not for reasons of doubt, although I have some.

More for having a Decent and being very happy with it.

Often too, with a long wait time (which there will be), newly delivered machines pop up for sale, box unopened, for the price paid or close to it. Weber Keys were popping up like Meerkats. Given that I’m not wedded to the idea of owning one, there’s no compelling reason to take the risk.

So given those two factors, I cancelled.

Do I have concerns about their ability to deliver? Sure do. But that wasn’t the reason for cancelling. We all have a different relationship with risk.

Raja123

tompoland

I had a $100 deposit, which I haven’t cashed in. I ended up buying a Strietman CT2 instead.

I do like the concepts of the Meticulous and wish the company/inventor well. I think we need to read between the lines as we do with all things. It’s always prudent to know that all Kickstarter projects are a risk. And, while Met is utilizing as many influencers as possible for their campaign, that also means there are more reputations at stake. That said, I’ve often noticed that some people may be more negative if they are not given a sample to test early. I’ve seen that happen a lot in many different areas of tech. Once the sample arrives, the negativity dissipates or turns into positivity, lol.

Cuprajake

me personally, id rather pay £2k for a sorted production machine than lose £1500 on a machine that may never come,

DavecUK

I was viewing this video carefully (I found the link on HB)and it struck me that the water in the Meticulous was boiling. A few things crossed my mind:

The portafilter wasn’t really that hot
It took at least the first 33% of the shot to get a temp above 90C (starting from 75)
Target temp was reached 92.9C in 21s
The shot ending after about 40-43s

Now the water in the chamber was boiling and in an open chamber you can’t get hotter than boiling. Logically this means whatever you set the temperature to, you are unlikely to get a shot above 93C. The so called temperature proof was at a single temperature.

https://share.getcloudapp.com/RBurpWej

People on HB, seem to be selling this thing to themselves…“they want to believe”. There are a few YT videos as well by someone who doesn’t exactly seem to be independent. One statement was it takes 4-5 minutes to heat the water in the chamber…followed by “I was asked how it would be if you had people round” and the statement “i’d be totally comfortable with that (referring to the 4-5 minutes”???

I cannot believe how hard this is being pushed and clearly much money is being spent marketing and getting influencers on board. In no way can this deliver when they say….and probably not December 2024 either.

In fact none of the “Influencers” really seem to have found a single negative thing with it…which IMO is extremely unlikely.

tompoland

DavecUK It took at least the first 33% of the shot to get a temp above 90C (starting from 75)

That would be my biggest concern. That’s a massive variation.

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