I've not got my machine yet (Minima), but will be getting it as early in 2022 as I can. My plan is to use Lockhills for the time being. I can't get into RO at the moment for a while host of reasons, but might do down the line (years, not months). Is Lockhills still considered okay for espresso machines (I know it isn't perfect)? It is a lot easier for me to get than Ashbeck. I also can't seem to find anything on how to descale a machine. I know the best advice is to avoid needing to, but I'm going to have to for a while. Is there a recommended approach/ process to follow? Cheers

It's probably the best bottled water. You'll need to descale the service boiler though, a fairly simple task however you do it (removing fixture or just filling with the pump).

@"PortafilterProcrastinator"#p2209 Yes, exactly

Bottled Water and Descalling Espresso Machine

PortafilterProcrastinator

Thank you for the quick reply @Rob1 , that’s great.

I like the idea of filling the service boiler directly and so not having the descalling stuff running around the whole machine. I’ll give it some more thought whilst I am getting prepared.

DavecUK

PortafilterProcrastinator I like the idea of filling the service boiler directly and so not having the descalling stuff running around the whole machine. I’ll give it some more thought whilst I am getting prepared.

As long as you don’t engage the brew switch until descaling is completely finished and the steam boiler refreshed with water a few times to remove all descaler, no descaler should enter the brew boiler…

It’s easier than removing fittings…just takes a bit longer.

Rob1

PortafilterProcrastinator

Should say really Lockhills will scale in the brew boiler too very slightly. Ideally, you could mix it with something to decrease alkalinity and hardness a bit more e.g. dow to 40mg/l alkalinity using something like a zero water jug, then it wouldn’t scale the brew boiler. It’s still the best IMO as I wouldn’t use ashbeck. You’ll avoid scale in the brew boiler as is with that one but it has low alkalinity (not great for taste). Adding potassium bicarb to ashbeck is an option too.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Thanks DavecUK

Just so I am clear - do you mean you’d switch the brew and steam boilers on (leaving the brew switch well alone) put the descaler in the water tank, run the HW tap to then pull the descaler into the steam boiler, let it do it’s thing, then flush with lots of clean water (through the HW tap) before brewing again.

DavecUK

PortafilterProcrastinator Yes, exactly

Pompeyexile

Got to admit I have only ever used Ashbeck, but still descale on a regular basis just as a matter of course. However, I would be interested to hear from other members here what they consider the best water (bottled) to be as far as keeping the scale issue to a minimum…Oh, and of course for taste.

PortafilterProcrastinator

Thanks Rob1

When you say

Rob1 You’ll avoid scale in the brew boiler as is with that one but it has low alkalinity (not great for taste). Adding potassium bicarb to ashbeck is an option too.

“As is with that one” - what do you mean?

It sounds like you might be saying if I use Ashbeck and add potassium bicarb I’d avoid brew boiler scale and deal with the taste issue. But I am not sure that’s what you mean.

Rob1

PortafilterProcrastinator

I mean ‘as is’ as in without adding anything to it but alkalinity is really low so you can get around it by adding potassium bicarb to avoid increasing sodium.

Waitforme

@Rob1, what dose of Potassium Bicarbonate would you add to a 5 litre bottle of Ashbeck ?

MWJB

Waitforme Ashbeck is about 20mg/l alkalinity, you want 40-50mg/l. Let’s call it 45mg/l for arguments sake.

Sodium bicarbonate added to water gives a result of about 60% as alkalinity.

So divide 25 (20mg/l you already have, plus what you need to hit 45mg/l) by 60 and you get 40mg/l of sodium bicarbonate, multiply this by 5l and you add 200mg to 5l of Ashbeck. Use 0.01g scales to measure this out.

Waitforme

@PortafilterProcrastinator , it’s good practice to empty the service boiler regularly.

When the service boiler is up to pressure, turn machine off and empty as much out of the boiler as you can via the HW tap, turn machine back on and let it come up to pressure again , rinse and repeat twice.

This should help flush the solids from the boiler than can promote scaling.

I do it monthly.

dutchy101

Watching this thread with interest. I’ve got a Skuma RO water unit on order but won’t be delivered until June. Was planning on grabbing a Minima over the next few weeks but wondering whether I might be better holding off until I’ve got the Skuma.

DavecUK

dutchy101 Might be, unless you can find a bottled water that doesn’t scale. This is assuming they meet the June delivery!!

dutchy101

DavecUK Yes - I hadn’t considered them overrunnung on the schedule…

I live near a Waitrose so can get hold of Lockhills, but live closer to a Tesco so use Ashbeck in the Bambino.

Thing is the Bambino is starting to leak when tge steam wand purges and it is within warrantee period so timing wise if I get a brand new replacement I could sell it on quite easily which takes a big chunk off the Minima…

DavecUK

dutchy101 Yes - I hadn’t considered them overrunning on the schedule…

I think there is a 99,9999% probability they will overrun, possibly significantly.

dutchy101

Hmmmm. OK need to think about this carefully in that case.

Might be a case of bittled water with bicarb until the Skuma comes

dutchy101

MWJB

This is exactly what I needed to know. Thanks

LMSC

Without hijacking the thread, you may also want to look at Rob’s excel

MWJB Could you post your carefully researched and updated excel here as well please? You may also consider linking it to your signature!

Waitforme

MWJB Waitforme Ashbeck is about 20mg/l alkalinity, you want 40-50mg/l. Let’s call it 45mg/l for arguments sake.

Sodium bicarbonate added to water gives a result of about 60% as alkalinity.

So divide 25 (20mg/l you already have, plus what you need to hit 45mg/l) by 60 and you get 40mg/l of sodium bicarbonate, multiply this by 5l and you add 200mg to 5l of Ashbeck. Use 0.01g scales to measure this out.

Topped up the machine this morning with Ashbeck + 0.2gm added to the Ashbeck 5l container.

I was amazed at how little 0.2gm actually is, I was thinking it’d be about a teaspoonful at least 😲

dutchy101

Thanks @Rob1 - I’ll take another look. Trying to run before I can walk there I think lol.

Minima coming on Tuesday - if I’ve not got my head around this by then I’ll do this, or try mixing some tap water with pure water to get to the right level.

MWJB Ashbeck is about 20mg/l alkalinity, you want 40-50mg/l. Let’s call it 45mg/l for arguments sake.

Sodium bicarbonate added to water gives a result of about 60% as alkalinity.

So divide 25 (20mg/l you already have, plus what you need to hit 45mg/l) by 60 and you get 40mg/l of sodium bicarbonate, multiply this by 5l and you add 200mg to 5l of Ashbeck. Use 0.01g scales to measure this out.

Waitforme

Thanks @MWJB .

I’ll give this a go, I wonder if I’ll taste any difference 🤔

MWJB

LMSC There isn’t really much need for a spreadsheet when discussing bottled water for boilers. Use Waitrose Essentials Lockhills. If you can’t find it/it’s too inconvenient to source, use Volvic.